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Challenge projects


Joshua States

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I thought I'd jump up to the plate and post this as a beginner's challenge project along the lines of what was discussed in another thread.

The blade is flat ground O-1 (use whatever tool steel you like) dropped point, has a partial tang and a frame handle design. The guard is a single branch copper design (use whatever guard material you like) has a stabilized wood and vulcanized paper spacer package with ironwood scales over a copper frame and copper pins. With all the materials, use whatever you like. This is not so much about duplicating the knife, but duplicating the knife making techniques.

 

Jan 2012 009.jpg

 

Jan 2012 011.jpg

 

Jan 2012 012.jpg

 

Ask any questions you like.

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“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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Check the Show & Tell forum under the La Brea Bowie thread. It's all there.

Edited by Joshua States

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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wow joshua you really just went from zero to 100 that fast! haha! welp ill get to studying in between my other projects and see what i can turn out

 

I'm not sure I understand. I made that knife 4 years ago.

 

 

time frame?

 

I actually started 3 hunters recently to try and work on a repeatable process. why not try to add in some spacers and a frame:)

 

Perfect Dan. I love repeatable processes. That's why I make templates for everything (knives, guards, handles, frames, etc.)

Let's use the same time frame as the KITH. Done by June 30, 2016.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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meaning, that's a large list of things i have not attempted yet LoL.

 

No Time like the present i suppose.

 

Scales are my comfort zone and have been hesitant to try anything else #scared lol

Edited by Gabriel James
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Frames are a good challenge for sure. As for how the tang is connected to the frame, it often isn't, particularly in historical bowies. The pins through the scales hold the frame on the knife, the tang just fits tightly within the frame. Jim Batson often brazes a steel or nickel silver bridge across the frame (making a sleeve instead of a frame) for a more secure place to pin the handle to the tang, especially when using fragile scale material like pearl and ivory.

 

When you see an antique bowie with pearl scales and no visible tang pins, but WITH an escutcheon plate, the connecting pins are UNDER that plate. Or the tang can have a little nub riveted through the end of the frame, or there can be pins through the frame and tang top-to-bottom, or just through the frame and into the tang. Several ways to proceed, just choose your style and roll with it.

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Well, I don't see why not to do this :P I haven't done one before and I have been wanting to, so count me in on this! With KITH and other commissions I can't say I will have all that much time to work on it, but I am sure I can find a bit of time to work on another project ;)

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Reminds me of an Ed Fowler design, except of course you used ironwood. Looks great.

I'm not sure if I'm offended or not..... :wacko:

 

 

I've never understood the function of the frame. Is it just a way to create that particular aesthetic effect, or is there a mechanical reason to do it?

The frame serves a variety of functions. It can lend stability and strength to otherwise unstable or weak materials. It provides a look that can often deceive the viewer into thinking that it is a full tang design and the blade extends through the guard and handle. It provides added weight for balance on an otherwise blade-heavy knife. It provides numerous opportunities for artistic embellishment. This handle accomplished 3 out of those 4.

Dagger close-up_opt.jpg

 

As for the attachment methods, there are also many ways it can be attached. There are the methods Alan mentioned, there is brazing or soldering the frame to the tang, and there is also simply gluing that baby on with epoxy.

 

Helpful hint: Frame handles are typically finished off the knife, or not yet attached to the tang permanently. The finished handle is attached after all other work is complete (except for maybe finishing the pins)

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Scales are my comfort zone and have been hesitant to try anything else #scared lol

Well, this is a lot like putting scales on a full tang blade. So, your transition should not be all that strenuous. (except for the guard and spacer parts that is)

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Check the Show & Tell forum under the La Brea Bowie thread. It's all there.

I the thread, it appears the frame is locked into the space with just friction.

I still don't understand what actually keeps the handle from flying off or the blade really.

It the frame pinned somewhere to the tang?

Or are the slabs pinned to the tang somewhere.

I read what Allen said too.

Having never seen one in person disassembled it baffles me.

Thanks for any clarification.

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JJ: See two posts above.....

 

As for the attachment methods, there are also many ways it can be attached. There are the methods Alan mentioned, there is brazing or soldering the frame to the tang, and there is also simply gluing that baby on with epoxy.

 

Oh yeah, You can add a pin through the handle and the tang and dome/peen it over too.

Edited by Joshua States

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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So they are not meant to be take down style specifically.

 

No, they are generally never meant to come apart. That's a very recent idea.

 

Exactly. The knife in the challenge was simply glued together after the scales had been hollowed out to accept the tang.

OOPS! Did I just give away something?

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“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Does the frame need to completely outline the handle? I have an idea for forging the guard and frame from 1 piece, and in this idea the spine comes into the handle a bit.

 

I think to make a guard and complete frame from one piece is beyond the tools and skill I have.

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The guard is always a seperate piece. A lot of early bowies used frame handles to look like full tangs one could not possibly fit a guard over. One English maker even fitted the guard from the blade end, pinned it through the blade, and used a frame to confuse people.

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