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Joshua States

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im currently scratching my head and throwing things trying to figure this out i h8 you in a good way joshua :P

I know that feeling all too well........

There were many times I asked my mentor "How did you do that?" and he would respond "figure it out."

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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Does the frame need to completely outline the handle? I have an idea for forging the guard and frame from 1 piece, and in this idea the spine comes into the handle a bit.

 

I think to make a guard and complete frame from one piece is beyond the tools and skill I have.

 

Look at the photo again. There is a spacer between the frame and the guard. They are two separate pieces. If I were to dismantle this knife, the following would be all the pieces:

1. Blade

2. Guard

3. Spacer package (3 pieces total, 2 pieces of black vulcanized paper and 1 piece of stabilized burl)

4. 16 ga. copper frame

5. 2 pieces of ironwood for the scales

6. 6 copper pins (1/8" diameter)

 

This can be accomplished with very basic tools. I demonstrated this technique using only a drill press, angle grinder, band saw (a hacksaw will suffice) and a Harbor Freight special 6x48 belt sander with 9 inch disc (a $200 tool) and various hand tools (files, pliers, rulers, etc.). I also used a Dremel tool, but just because it's faster and easier than using wood chisels and carving tools.

Edited by Joshua States

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Thanks for breaking it down for me. This weekend depending on the winds I'll be doing either hot or cold work. Hopefully some on this and kith. You did get me obsessing more on my kith.....thinking about going to 9 billets and keeping thing odd on the way to 1 billet. We shall see.

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Now I'm just curious. Traditionally what kept moisture off the tang with this style handle? Was a tight fit enough or was there a reliable substitute for modern day epoxy?

You must have heard the line at some point where a man threatens his horse (or mule or cow or other large mammal) with sending it to the glue factory.

 

Animal glue (aka hide or hoof glue) is probably the oldest and most widely used adhesive known to humans.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Now I'm just curious. Traditionally what kept moisture off the tang with this style handle? Was a tight fit enough or was there a reliable substitute for modern day epoxy?

A waterproof joint between guard and blade is a totally modern hangup. No sword ever had it, only the cheapest of imported bowies with glued-on handles did, and that was not until the 1840s. I think it was either Bill Moran or Bo Randall who invented the soldered guard and used the line about keeping moisture off the tang in the late 1940s. Prior to that, all the way back to the bronze age, nobody ever seemed to think that was a problem.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Anyone have any progress to report, or further questions?

Edited by Joshua States

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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im working on it as a back burner project -- currently trying to file my guard to fit... my 1084 knife fully hardened and i cannot get my corners squared with a file for the guard to seat... Ill have to get my butane torch refilled and soften it i suppose before i can go any further. Other than that i have a plan of action.. just hope it works lol!

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I am actually going to start my blade on Monday, I have my kids this weekend, so I cant do anything hot work even though the weather here in SLC utah is flippin gorgeous.

Everything I have currently in the works is either a full tang paracord, full tang with scales, or the single hidden tang I have in the works that I already have a handle design in mind for, I want to make something specific for this project so I can give a couple other processes a try while working on it.

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Nice start Robert. What steel?

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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  • 3 weeks later...

Joshua, I got some work done today on my project. I have a single guard roughed and slotted to fit....I was planning on using a bone spacer. But, I cant tell but is the fake tang inserted inside of the spacer to tie everything together? Or can you just butt the 2 up to one another? Due to not having any other materials for the tang was going to use a sheet of micarta. As soon as my phone is not dead i can take pics if you like.

Edited by Gabriel James
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The copper frame is just butted up to the spacer. You can try to make it insert into the spacer if you like, but that's a technique I am unfamiliar with.

 

Definitely, show some pics of your progress. Everyone who attempts this challenge project should post pics of what they are doing and how they are progressing. The idea was for several people to try this and share their progress photos. Two people come up with four times as many ideas as one person does alone.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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12887290_10153311607365146_125737936_o.jpg

 

this is very rough just trying to get an idea of how everything's going to fit together. would it be best to assemble the scales around the tang and THEn assemble the entire thing like a hidden tang knife?

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A small piece of advice on process.

I do not even start to fit any of my handle parts (including guard and spacer) until my blade is 100% done. By the time I am slotting my guard, I have already completed all of the hand sanding and finish work on the blade.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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I gotcha! Today was get everything off the bench thats been sitting on the bench and put them bad boys in the game day! I have 1018 round bar 1/2" i think If i flattened and rough formed this around the tang would this be preferably to the micarta?

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I like the blade shape on that, Might actually heat mine back up and throw a bit more taper to it to widen it out.

Ive not made much progress on mine, been gathering KITH materials ( need ONE more thing ) and working on paracord drop points to sell as I need to make some money or the girlfriend will hurt me for spending money.

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Here is the progress I have on mine so far, shoulders and ricasso are roughed out, need to crank out a few things before I can start to seriously work on this one.

Thinking I will go with brass for the frame portion of the handle, but still not certain, if the weather here holds out ( 70 degrees yesterday, 3 inches of snow today ) I might try making a pattern welded frame instead as I am going to attempt a scrapmascus guard for my KITH knife from old saw blades.

 

20160328_181637.jpg

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OK all you guys in this challenge, here comes the treasure hunt.

I have already posted the process for making this handle style elsewhere on this very forum in a couple of different places. There are photos of different stages of the process and links to off-site locations with more information. None of these posts are in this thread. Happy hunting!

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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