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What did you do in your shop today?


Joshua States

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I’ve been working in a handful of pieces based on originals described in Puukkon Historia, and that involved my first successful hat-sheath (turns out fourth time was the charm). You really do need to make a wooden model of the knife to stitch around, I couldn’t get it to work until I did. 
 

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I debated weather or not this was the spot for this.....but what I have been doing for the last 4 hours(today) is trying to heat treat some stainless blades.

I have a paragon with a 3.0 sentry controller.

It was throwing me an LAG code. A PF1 and a PF2 code. Now I am just getting the pf 2 code mostly.

The manual says after that it needs to be above 72 to fire again after a power failure and I was only at 70 according to the unit.

I fixed the inside temp.....and have no clue when or how I had a power failure...and still notta.

I have tried the reset function.....and I still have the 2 firing programs I put in....so I assume that isnt working.

I tried the 2 min test  and test fire function and after 30 seconds or so I get a AOP2 code.

That says is some special outlet or something I dont even have.....and wont fire at all.

I am guessing its the whole controller or something not simple.

Not one of my happier investments if thats the case......right now I am probably at the 100 dollar a blade mark on heat treating not counting foil or power.

Spent all day yesterday beating my head against a wall with a weed wacker that wont run.

Would have been a nice day to play blades. I have 15 dollars worth of dry ice going to waste in the freezer.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be awesome....feel free to move this if this isnt the spot.

Edit.....if all else fails I will re type it in tools.

I have already emaild paragons ask a tech dealio.

Had these 3 ready and a hunter thats in foil.

 

filet.jpg

Edited by Kreg Whitehead
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3 hours ago, Kreg Whitehead said:

I debated weather or not this was the spot for this.....but what I have been doing for the last 4 hours(today) is trying to heat treat some stainless blades.

I have a paragon with a 3.0 sentry controller.

It was throwing me an LAG code. A PF1 and a PF2 code. Now I am just getting the pf 2 code mostly.

The manual says after that it needs to be above 72 to fire again after a power failure and I was only at 70 according to the unit...

 

Not sure if this will help, but the Paragon that we have in our shop has always thrown us something like a temp lag (I can't remember exactly what it says). 

 

What happens is we set the program, start it, and it starts to heat up, so I walk away, and after a little bit I hear the alarm beeping with the LAG code, and so I go back and re-start the program at that point and it runs as normal.

 

RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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On 6/8/2023 at 11:34 PM, Gerhard Gerber said:

One big question remains, do I come in from the top or the side of the burner..... 

All of the ribbon burners I have made follow the Emmerling model and the gas/air tube comes in directly behind the ceramic burner perpendicular to the burner. 

 

Welding forge (1) V2.jpg

 

Furnace running V2.jpg

 

Finished furnace (1) V2.jpg

 

 

15 hours ago, Kreg Whitehead said:

Any thoughts or suggestions would be awesome....

One of the things I remember about the Paragon oven is it will not begin firing a program if the furnace temp is less than 100*C below the target F1 temp. Have you tried the basic reboot? Unplug it, spin around 3 times, and plug it back in.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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On 6/8/2023 at 11:34 PM, Gerhard Gerber said:

One big question remains, do I come in from the top or the side of the burner..... 

 

23 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

All of the ribbon burners I have made follow the Emmerling model and the gas/air tube comes in directly behind the ceramic burner perpendicular to the burner. 

Same here.  However, at risk of stirring the pot, 3 weeks ago at the NWBA annual spring conference, Jeffrey Funk gave a seminar on forge building based on his 40+ years of experience and he builds his forges with the ribbon burner on the floor with a parabolic shaped interior of the forge so that he gets a 'swirling' effect similar to what Dave Lisch and others suggest with venturi burners.  Jeff casts a little damn around the burner (and it is cast off to the side of the forge) to prevent flux and other stuff falling into the burner.   (I'm probably not going to do this on the new forge I'm about to build for our shop, however)

Another thing that he suggests (that I am designing into our new forge) is making doors on pulleys (like a garage door) using cast refractory so that you only have to open the forge enough to get stuff in and out and not have a perpetually open hole where heat can escape the forge when the opening is just stacked bricks.  He does this by making the face of the forge at 5 degree angle off square so that gravity keeps the doors flush against the face of the forge. 

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RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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15 minutes ago, billyO said:

ribbon burner on the floor with a parabolic shaped interior of the forge so that he gets a 'swirling' effect similar to what Dave Lisch and others suggest with venturi burners. 

 

I first heard that proposed in the late 1990s by a guy on keenjunk.com named Rich Waugh, went by the handle Vicopper.  He actually built said forge and it worked great.  His ribbon burner was a long thin one that ran the length of the forge. 

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I think it is more than possible, in fact almost guaranteed, that forge design can be over-thought, over engineered, and complicated needlessly. Too many times I have seen modifications to a basic design that seem to me to be solutions in search of a problem.

 

There is a general acceptance that the "swirling effect" is absolutely required for efficient forge design. My response is "show me the test and comparison data". If you look at that photo of my welding forge above, you will see a 12" x 3" ribbon burner in a 16" long forge with an interior diameter of about 8". The burner is located in the center, pointed straight down. Most folks say this causes a "hot spot" directly under the burner and I'm risking burning my steel. Seems logical right?

My short answer is it doesn't work that way. The long answer is it works quite the opposite, especially at lower than welding temps. For some weird reason unknown to me, the center of this forge runs colder than the sides. When I tried cocking the burner off plumb, I got a cold spot on the other side of the billet, uneven heat, and a buggered weld.

I have tried to photograph the cold spot, but it's very difficult to get a good pic Here is the best one I have.

 

Cold spot V2.jpg

 

I have this forge set up so I can run it at 1900 F and 2000 F for general foging of the steels I generall use and with a click of a ball valve, jump up to welding heat. At welding heat, the sides of the billet generally tend to come up faster and reach welding temp before the entire top does. I know this because I still use some flux in my forge welding of PW billets. I can see the sides sweating and bubbling before the top does. This is impossible to photograph.

 

 

Edited by Joshua States
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“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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1 hour ago, Joshua States said:

I think it is more than possible, in fact almost guaranteed, that forge design can be over-thought, over engineered, and complicated needlessly.

I am certainly guilty of this. :lol:

 

Ribbon burners and other forced air burners (and really oversized venturi burners) can have that cold spot effect.  That's because of the extra air it takes to keep the burner running right.  It's not oxidizing, it's just volume of moving gas that's not quite fully combusted.  In my little two-brick forge I have a comically oversized 3/4" sidearm burner that makes a cold spot on the wall it's pointed at while the rest is at welding heat.  

 

I prefer the swirl on ordinary burners, but I agree that with a ribbon it doesn't really matter.  Those just dump so much heat you can point them anywhere in the forge except straight out the door and they work fine.

 

The abovementioned Rich's forge even had a built-in air curtain across the front door and a molded floor with a drain hole in one corner for excess flux.  A fine example of the Rolls effect: That is, a Rolls Royce can't do anything a cheaper car can do just as well, except impress random strangers.

 

I think Jeff Pringle's nuclear marshmallow crucible furnace is the perfect opposite to this.  Just a roll of kaowool, some binding wire, and the simplest blown burner ever (literally some 1/4" copper tube plugged into a 1" black iron pipe, no valves, just a damper on the blower and a regulator on the gas tank).  It gives you molten steel in about half an hour, and when it cools off you just take the wire loose, roll up the wool, and stick it in the corner until next time.

 

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10 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Rich Waugh,

I remember him, he used to moderate an art metal forum.  Sadly the forum is no more, it was owned by a NC smith long retired.  Anyway, that was a very cool forge.   I liked the little vertical burner on the side that allowed one to heat up just a little area, looked great for working small bits.

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On 6/12/2023 at 6:31 AM, Joshua States said:

All of the ribbon burners I have made follow the Emmerling model and the gas/air tube comes in directly behind the ceramic burner perpendicular to the burner. 

 

Welding forge (1) V2.jpg

 

Furnace running V2.jpg

 

Finished furnace (1) V2.jpg

 

 

One of the things I remember about the Paragon oven is it will not begin firing a program if the furnace temp is less than 100*C below the target F1 temp. Have you tried the basic reboot? Unplug it, spin around 3 times, and plug it back in.

Long story short....after talking to the tech line with a multi meter and the back and controls out of the front....I was getting zero power to the relay.

The girl says looks like your mother board is bad.

I say what is the least expensive on there is?

She says the one you have....its 550.00 .

I called Jantz the next day. She says it has either a 2 or 2.5 year warrantee and you bought it in July of 2021.

Sooooo that was a relief until I called paragon the next day.

He chuckles and said I dont know why they told ya that...the warrantee period is one year.

What controller is it he says. I tell him sentry 3.0.

He says oh ....we dont even use those anymore...I have one on the shelf I will give ya.

I shipped the old one off this morning.

Hopefully I will have it back together soon.

I paid close to 2 k and have done less than 20 blades.

So far not my best investment. ....guess I will hope and see if the new one lasts longer.

 

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Screwed up the eye a bit (after I punched it perfectly on the press, as I didnt had the mandrel and made one afterwards. Water quench. The chap wanted me to grind it clean.  Also to run my forge and forge by hand is like burning euros these days :(   Next time better.

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I like the folding brass edge cover. 

 

I was feeling masochistic, so I inlaid a silver nameplate and a silver knife into the iron hawk head. My shoulders are not happy...

 

20230618_135839.jpg

 

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Gonna have to regrind two of my O1 die sinkers' chisels after that. <_<

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Got a request for a branding iron a couple weeks back:

 

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This was a unique request. The letters are only around 1.5" tall.

 

It is for branding steaks and other meats for a photo shoot for one of those "farm to table" restaurants.

 

I cut the letters on the band saw and cleaned them up with the grinder and needle files.

 

The handle was brazed on.

 

Apparently the customer liked it.

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Spent the last couple of weekend trying to develop the patina I was after.  I'm getting close...

 

20230701_134034.jpg

 

A long soak in ferric chloride enriched with white vinegar to open the grain, followed by cold bluing and polishing back to 600 grit.  Those aren't scratches, that's the grain of the too-clean wrought I used. Looks much better in person, more like an antique.

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Started work on the handle today.  First I fitted the head, then carved the grooves for the cast pewter bands.

 

20230702_142634.jpg

 

Made the carboard and tape forms, cast the pewter:

 

20230702_144917.jpg

 

Let it cool a bit, then peeled off the forms:

 

20230702_145455.jpg

 

Cleaned it up and reset the head.

 

20230702_151707.jpg

 

And the patina on the head is still looking good...

 

20230702_151713.jpg

 

I plan on putting a hunter's star inlay, or maybe a diamond shaped inlay, between the pewter bands, but my wife thinks I should let the wood speak for itself.  It's pretty nice curly maple. It will have a modestly fancy cast pewter mouthpiece.  What do y'all think? Inlays or no?

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Today I did the mouthpiece.

 

Channels carved out.  Note the layout lines, which get ignored pretty quickly once carving starts:

 

20230704_135656.jpg

 

Rotated to show depth, and the stainless tubing with grooves, pre-tinned to lock it to the pewter.  

 

20230704_135701.jpg

 

Poured:

 

20230704_141105.jpg

 

Cleaned up to a 400 grit belt finish.

 

20230704_151110.jpg

 

So nobody has any input on whether or not I should add more inlays?

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

So nobody has any input on whether or not I should add more inlays?

With the addition of that beautiful mouth piece I say no more inlay.  I think it gives it a nice balanced feel, not too busy up top.B)

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