deferential heat treat and hamon question

[Johnathan Sibley 12]

Ok, I've got a batch of blades I heat treated. I used Rutland black on 1075 heat to 1450-1500 quench in heated canola. The .125" blade shows a license distinct if slightly doring hamon, the .187 blades show very little if any. Thinking clay thickness or maybe adhesions is my problem is. The 3/16". What do you guys think?

[C.Anderson 13]

I think 1075 in Canola oil is the problem. That said, I can't see your clay layout, or how you ground the knives either. My suggestion is 3 seconds into 120°F brine, out 4 seconds, then into your canola oil at 400°F for 10 seconds...then out and wave in air or park in front of a fan (spine to edge) for 30 seconds to a minute. From there, temper at 375 for 30 minutes, check your line on the grinder, then of you're happy fin ish your temper cycles. Lay your clay on 1/16" to no more than 1/8"...and you'll get results.

[Johnathan Sibley 12]

This is the 1/8in one that worked. the clay layout on all of them with similar and they all have full height flat grinds.

[Johnathan Sibley 12]

The hamon.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Johnathan Sibley

[JJ Simon 123]

Do yourself a favor and buy some 11 second oil from Mcmaster carr.
It makes a wold of difference.
The clay looks ok if a little thick.
That black rutlands is really really insulating.
You can put just lines on it and it will make a hamon.
It would be helpful to see pics of the hamon.
1450 is really too low for this steel.
1500 is great.

If your clay is right and your temp is right and your quench is the right speed the hamon should follow the clay line really well.

[Johnathan Sibley 12]

And there's the sticking point. $20 a gal +shipping from Chicago to Texas. I'll eventually be getting a 5-all bucket of parks50, but right now it ain't in the budget

[C.Anderson 13]

Again, brine into oil is an amazing thing with 1075. W1/W2 as well for that matter. Your clay layout above is perfect for it.

 

View Album, http://s1133.photobucket.com/user/CrisAnderson27/library/Bladesmithing/First%20Katana

 

Take a look there. The 4th blade I ever made. 23", and a dual hamon. That wasn' me...it was the steel, and the quenchant.

[Austin_Lyles 120]

That hamon is typical of what you'll get from canola. There may be a different or better way than what I do... but I use warm, soap saturated water to quench my w2 into for around 2-3 seconds and then into hot peanut oil. I've had weird things happen anywhere from exactly what I wanted, to something too crazy, to nothing at all. It comes down to practice and consistency, which I am still very far away from. Maxim was out of parks50 last time I checked but hopefully I can get myself some soon as well. Best of luck Johnathan!

 

 

That's a unique looking hamon, Mr. Anderson.

 

Edit: I just realized Mr. Anderson beat me too explaining with the time in a brine and oil...etc.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Austin_Lyles

[C.Anderson 13]

That hamon is typical of what you'll get from canola. There may be a different or better way than what I do... but I use warm, soap saturated water to quench my w2 into for around 2-3 seconds and then into hot peanut oil. I've had weird things happen anywhere from exactly what I wanted, to something too crazy, to nothing at all. It comes down to practice and consistency, which I am still very far away from. Maxim was out of parks50 last time I checked but hopefully I can get myself some soon as well. Best of luck Johnathan!

 

 

That's a unique looking hamon, Mr. Anderson.

 

Edit: I just realized Mr. Anderson beat me too explaining with the time in a brine and oil...etc.

 

Thank you . And there's no reason two people can't post the same thing if the information is good, lol.

 

The clay layout on that katana was interesting...and the process (interrupting etc) is definitely what gave me the double line. I was shooting for something like Howard Clark's 'razorwire'...and what I got does...ehh....'resemble' it in small ways I guess lol. Funny thing is, I almost duplicated it on two blades in a row.

 

I think it would be fun making a post where people guessed at the clay layout .

[Johnathan Sibley 12]

Having two people post the same process just adds,credence to it's effectiveness.

 

What I'd like to see is a thread of : clayed blade pic, initial clean up and etch to check pic, final hamon pic, then description of prosess.

[JeffFogleboch 14]

What C. Anderson said. with 1075 and W2 you need a very fast quench. I do water for 3 seconds (120 degree F) and then into 120 degree oil and I agitate until it is cool. Don't use cold water or you will be sorry! Also be sure to play around with clay thickness...I have discovered that the clay can be very thin and do and even better job than super thick clay! Good luck!