Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Brian Dougherty

New Press Build

Recommended Posts

I also got the die plates drilled and counter bored.  These screw to the plates welded to the cross bars, and are what I will build the die holders on.  The dies themselves will be on 3/8" plates that are held in the die holders.

IMG_20170218_172239939.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got some more work done on the press today.  I made my first set of dies.  These are a combination drawing and flattening die set.  I'm a better machinist than a welder (which isn't saying much) so I machined the blocks and screwed them to the die plate.  I made the dies from 4140, but I haven't decided if I will actually heat treat them.  It seems like they will end up getting tempered pretty soft from the heat absorbed while working.  I can still unscrew the blocks and heat treat them if I so choose.  What do you guys think about heat treating them?  

 

IMG_20170225_155711200.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also welded up some die holders using 1/2" angle.  I still need to come up with some sort of "Keeper" to keep the dies from sliding forward out of the holder.  I'll probably do some sort of off-center pivoting piece of bar stock like I have seen on many other presses.

 

IMG_20170225_160135050.jpg

IMG_20170225_164402788.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was dying to see it move, so I hooked it up to compressed air.  Here the dies are touching each other for the first time!

 

IMG_20170225_163700582.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks very nice. With the frame being bolted together. How strong will it be compared to being welded?

Edited by BrianS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian, The bolts should be able to withstand about 6 times the max load of the press.  That being said, I may still go back and weld the joints up once I run the press with hydraulics and make sure everything is properly aligned.  I don't think the welds would be stronger than the bolts, but it would keep the frame from loosening up over time and racking.

Calculating the strength of bolts in double shear like this is not something I do often so I can't recommend anyone follow my lead.  However I do want to point out that, not all bolts are equal.  Even the legendary Grade 8 bolts are not suitable for structural steel applications.  These are A325 bolts which along with known metallurgical properties, are designed so that the shoulders are long enough to extend through the holes so that the threads are not loaded in shear.

Edited by Brian Dougherty
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-02-25 at 2:34 PM, Brian Dougherty said:

I was dying to see it move, so I hooked it up to compressed air.  Here the dies are touching each other for the first time!

 

IMG_20170225_163700582.jpg

Nice Brian , nothing like the first time !! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, BCROB said:

Nice Brian , nothing like the first time !! 

Ha!  Fortunately, for me, that is true ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all, I don't do much with hydraulics so I could use some advice from anyone who has earned their red skivvies.  I have a couple of questions as I get close to actually wetting this thing out:

1. Hose Protection - I have seen a lot of discussion about using sleeves over the hoses to protect from scale and molten flux.  That always seems like a good idea to me, but now that I need to buy some, I'm having a hard time figuring out what to get.  I see a lot of Kevlar which is great for cut protection, but I don't think it is suitable for heat.

2. Fluid Reservoir Size - I'm using a 22/7 GPM two stage pump with a 14HP engine.  It seems that the rule of thumb is a tank that holds at least the GPM rating of the pump in order to have enough fluid to keep it from overheating.  I had planned on a 25-gallon tank, but now that I am close to actually putting this together, that seems awfully big.  Does anyone have experience to share?

 

BTW, searching for "Hose Sleeve" without the "Site:bladesmithsforum.com" part  is interesting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I got to test the press tonight.  (Sort of) Unfortunately I confirmed a suspicion I had about a design problem.

We have a very small electric hydraulic unit that one of our guys pulled out of a dumpster a few years ago so I hooked it up to try things out.  It runs the press very very slowly, and can only get to 1000psi, but it helped me uncover a design issue.  I had been worried for a while that the guides would not be strong enough because they are simply bolted to the cross bar.  Especially since I slotted them so I could adjust the guide blocks.  There simply isn't enough clamping force to keep the cross bar from racking. I'll have to come up with another solution.

I did crush a couple of tings though :)  Here is a video of a can and a piece of oil lite bearing being crushed.  The press actually squeezed oil from the oil lite.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a little more work done this morning.  To fix the issue with the guides, I drilled out the cross bar hole to 1/2"

 

IMG_20170311_090436750[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then I added a plate to the original guides, clamped them in place one at a time, and used a transfer punch to mark the hole locations for 1/2" bolts.

IMG_20170311_092210831[1].jpg

IMG_20170311_092850292[1].jpg

IMG_20170311_102626078[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then I drilled back through the guides with a 1/2" drill and bolted them into place.

IMG_20170311_111036522[1].jpg

IMG_20170311_104153704[1].jpg

IMG_20170311_121632771[1].jpg

Edited by Brian Dougherty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also fabed up a plate to hold the valve...

IMG_20170311_140221725[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On February 18, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Brian Dougherty said:

I got the guide blocks made today.  They have a UHMW wear block backed up by a piece of 3" angle.  I cut channels in the wear blocks for lubrication via a grease gun.  However, there are mixed opinions on using grease with UHMW, so I may not use them.

IMG_20170218_121847018.jpg

IMG_20170218_122153781.jpg

IMG_20170218_135618844.jpg

Very nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Brian, those slots shown in the last picture you quoted were the reason I had to do the welding and drilling to fix the guide design this weekend.  Good timing on the re-post :)

I also made a sheet metal guard to divert the scale so that it doesn't fall directly on my hoses, or around the cylinder seals.  I did find the hose protection material that I should use.  It's generally called "Fire sleeve"  I bough 10' of it, and will show it in place once I get it put on.

 

IMG_20170311_153915741[1].jpg

IMG_20170311_153900404[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the press as it sits today.  I should drag it home this week, and after a coat of paint, this part will pretty much be done.  All that is left is to build a frame for the engine, pump, and fluid reservoir.

 

IMG_20170311_160316124[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brian, 

I'm considering building a press some time in the nearish future and am looking at several different types. 

Is there an advantage to the style you have here with a single sliding bar vs a H rail set up?

Furthermore, I've seen top mounted single 5" bore piston set up. Does this hold any advantage/disadvantage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris,

I can't speak to utility yet since I don't quite have this one up and running.  However, After building it, I thin there are pros and cons to using angles like I did as opposed to an "H" or "I" beam.  The angles are easier to fabricate, but the cross bar is hard to constrain form side to side.

The nice thing about having your cylinders on top is that the piece you are working on stays stationary while the die moves down to meet it.  With the cylinders below, your top dies is stationary, and your work moves up on the bottom die.  However, this arrangement allows you to keep the weight down low, and to make a much shorter machine which is why I chose this route.  I went with two 4" cylinders because I wanted more force than a 5" would give, but didn't want to pay for a 6" cylinder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been busy with family activities the last few weeks, so haven't made much progress.  However, today I had time to work on the press.  I brought it home a few weeks ago, and tore it down.  Today it got a coat of paint.  Here it is all stripped down with a coat of primer:

 

 

primer.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a 10-year old can of touch up paint for a car.  I figured that even if it was still good, it wouldn't match a car that had been sitting in the sun all that time, so my press got a coat of metallic red :)

 

 

red.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A while back I asked about the proper protective sleeve material for hoses in a forge environment.  It turns out the material is called "Fire Sleeve"  It is a silicone coated fiberglass material that is supposed to resist welding slag and the like.  It is only about $3/foot in 1" diameter, so it is a pretty cheap insurance policy against scale and flux dropping on the hoses.

Here you can also see how I plumbed the cylinders.  There are a lot of debates about the need for a balancing valve when using two cylinders.  However, there seem to be a lot of presses running without them, so that is what I have decided to try first.

 

Firesleeve.JPG

Edited by Brian Dougherty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a poorly lit shot of it reassembled, and ready for a pump unit to be built:

 

Reassembled 4-23-17.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am making the pump unit with a 14hp engine coupled to a 22/7 GPM pump.  I bought a 10-gallon tank from the surplus center, and here I am laying out all the components prior to welding up a frame.

 

pump layout.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...