R.W. Deavers Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Hello all. Tomorrow, I will be starting another project. This one's going to be a good one, which I need a little advice on. A good friend of mine wants a tomahawk based on the one in the movie The Patriot. From research I've done, it was supposed to be a peace pipe tomahawk given to Benjamin Martin from the Cherokee. My friend wants this to be a fully functioning piece. I have done one or two railroad spike tomahawks in the past, but nothing quite like this, although I have always wanted to. So, I am looking for any advice on this project. I will try to get as many photos as possible for this build. Thanks in advance. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hardesty Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I will be watching this very closely. I enjoy tomahawks and am looking forward to this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Thanks Andrew, Overall, I am looking forward to this as well, but I am a little nervous also as I haven't attempted a build like this. We'll see how this goes. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 The hawk in the movie was made by Joe Szilaski, and is based on one found on pages 105 and 106 of "Accouterments" by James R. Johnston. No Cherokee connection, it is engraved "Chw Duke, Lt. 26 Gren" and "Toronto 1793." In other words it was carried a a member of the 26th light grenadiers in British Canada some ten years after the end of the revolution, but it's a lovely hawk. I have made a couple of them myself. The filework is brutal, you've been warned! Cutting a rounded edge in relief takes patience and a sure hand, and those little lozenges are a bear as well. Szilaski got around that by turning them into nails rather than the fileworked raised relief of the original. You can buy a wax casting of the original head somewhere online if you want a study piece. On the original the head is 7 inches from bowl to edge with a 3-inch edge, the handle is straight-grain ash 19 1/2 inches long, very finely incise-carved with running scrollwork on the left side and a canoe, two birds, an indian warrior, and a horse on the other. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Alan, I want to sincerely thank you for the information. So, this is a pipe 'hawk then? I guess I was looking in all the wrong places for info. Looks like I have alot of work ahead of me, this ought to be fun. Edited March 24, 2016 by R.W. Deavers You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 It is a pipe hawk, but the mouthpiece end of the handle is not typical in that it's a rounded lump rather than a mouthpiece. I made the one in the picture as a hammer poll at the request of the owner. Whichever type, I always do them as a separate part and thread and braze the bowl/poll in place. The originals use both that method and the far more difficult one-piece method. Ihave made exactly one one-piece pipe hawk head and I put it in an iron-in-the-hat event because I didn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Hmmm...separate bowl piece with threads...That idea is looking to be a better route to take. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Keyes Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The shaped nail head idea is brilliant, how come I'm not smart enough to think of stuff like that? OTOH, I am smart enough to steal an idea when I find one . Geoff 1 "The worst day smithing is better than the best day working for someone else." I said that. If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly. - - -G. K. Chesterton So, just for the record: the fact that it does work still should not be taken as definitive proof that you are not crazy. Grant Sarver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Good hawk. Movie was utter crap, but good hawk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Colwell Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Ok, I am not too smart. Where exactly, are the areas that can be replaced by shaped nail head? I may want to steal that idea, I mean, pay homage to the great masters who came before. please visit my website http://www.professorsforge.com/ “Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” E. V. Debs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Kevin, the area in question is the diamond on the side of the eye. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Albert Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Just curious...that "nail head" won't really be used to nail the head to the haft will it? Stupid question I'm sure, but I ask only because most old pipe hawk heads were not actually nailed on. tc Edited March 25, 2016 by TC Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 On the original, no it does not. It's just filework. Szilaski did his with nails. He also milled it out of stainless, so go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Albert Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Thanks... tc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Alan, I may have another 'stupid' question. When you made yours, what size stock material did you start with? You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1.25" x .25" x 11.5" flat 1020 for the body, 1" x .25" 1084 for the edge, .75" round 1070 for the hammer poll. If it were to have been a pipe bowl I'd use .75" 1020 and turn and bore it on the lathe, filing the flats after threading and brazing. The way I do it for a simple wrapped hawk is a pinned topic in Hot Work, "Forging a tomahawk my way." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Thank you again, Alan. Like I said before, other than a few railroad spike tomahawks, I haven't tried a traditional one yet and this will be a good learning experience, so you're input is highly appreciated along with others. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Albert Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I think Peterson's Tomahawk book is now posted on line... lets see if I can find the link... tc yep...here it is, its worth a perusal: http://library.si.edu/digital-library/author/peterson-harold-leslie Edited March 25, 2016 by TC Albert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Thanks TC. I bookmarked it for more future reference. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Rose Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Here's pics of the original from the book; Tomahawks and Frontiersmen Axes by Hartzler and Knowles Thanks to my late compadre, Gib Guignard , for the scans PS Alan - I need to talk with you about something important - would you please send me your phone number and a good time to call I'm on Mtn Time - 2 hour difference chuck@wrtcleather.com 1 Chuck Burrows Wild Rose Trading Co chuck@wrtcleather.com www.wrtcleather.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Email sent, Chuck! I did not know the diamonds were silver in relief, that would be MUCH easier than how I did it. I miss Gib too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Rose Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Could try a PM please - my email's been whonky for a while now. And yep doing inlays would be a LOT easier than my normal file work it relief out of the parent material like this and yep I do miss Gib often althought it looks like I may be seeing him soonly..... 2 Chuck Burrows Wild Rose Trading Co chuck@wrtcleather.com www.wrtcleather.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 Chuck, thank you so much with the reference material, it will be a great help along with Alan's and a few others. With great appreciation, I thank you guys again. You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Colwell Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Coming back after holiday with family. Thanks for explaining the nail thing. Inlay, for those who are good at it, seems a good way to go. I have so much to learn. This is a great thread. 1 please visit my website http://www.professorsforge.com/ “Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” E. V. Debs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.W. Deavers Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Okay, after much research and asking questions, I finally got started today. I must say, I always get a little nervous when I have to forge weld, so when I do, I take things slow so as to try and not mess something up. So far, things are going good (thanks Alan). In the first picture, I got the bar bent and rough shaped, ready for welding. Yes, I tacked both sides together so that nothing shifted. The second picture shows more progress after taking a good heat. In the third, I am starting to work the shape. Hopefully, tomorrow will come with more pictures of progress. 1 You are NEVER too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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