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Geoff Keyes

80crv2

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1 hour ago, Wes Detrick said:

I would say that those Austenizing temps are little high. The bottom end temp is close to what I do at 1525 but that top end temp is a bit high. I would start to worry about grain growth.  Maybe the Vanadium helps counteract that, but still, I would use the bottom end temp.

The temper temps are about spot on for what Jerrod found with my test knife, what the Prof is reporting above.  375 F should give you right about 61/62 RC.  Go a little higher for a big blade.

Was thinking that too. I think I'll try 1550°.  Is it possible you've had good results at lower temperature because you quench it in parks50?

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5 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said:

Does a small, sub 4", blade tempered at 375F, say, flat ground with a micro bevel, pass the brass rod test ?

I can't answer that; I have never made a sub 4" blade out of 80CrV2.  Hell, I don't know that I have ever made a sub 4" anything... But, the large blades I have done in 80CrV2 pass the brass rod test just fine.

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4 hours ago, Joël Mercier said:

Was thinking that too. I think I'll try 1550°.  Is it possible you've had good results at lower temperature because you quench it in parks50?

This is debatable.  80CrV2 is typically not a steel that people recommend using with Parks because of the alloying agents in it.  I have never cracked a blade in it, but I have read where some people report lower hardness with using it.  I have had good luck with it though.  I think I may ask someone with a hardness tester to test two samples, once quenched in Parks and one is warm Canola and see what we get out of it.

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On 4/27/2016 at 8:06 PM, Wes Detrick said:

 

I use my propane forge, a baffle pipe, and a thermocouple so depending on what you use, your results may vary.

Thanks a bunch for the very detailed guide Wes. I'd love to know more about what kind of thermocouple you use and how it's set up. And what's a baffle pipe? Sounds like you've got your forge dialed in to work almost like a HT oven which I would love to do with my forge.

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55 minutes ago, Connor Lyons said:

Thanks a bunch for the very detailed guide Wes. I'd love to know more about what kind of thermocouple you use and how it's set up. And what's a baffle pipe? Sounds like you've got your forge dialed in to work almost like a HT oven which I would love to do with my forge.

Sure thing, happy to help.  A baffle is a steel pipe that is put inside the forge, and then the knife is placed inside the pipe.  It keeps direct flame off of the blade, and allows a much more even heat on the knife.  Here is the pyrometer and thermocouple that I use.  I have the Type K 8 gauge ceramic probe from the drop down menu.
I am able to do some decent heat treating in my forge, but it is really difficult to sustain a steady temperature over time without a lot of babysitting of the gas regulator and ball valves.  I have since moved to a heat treating oven, which is great (but a lot more expensive).

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5 minutes ago, Wes Detrick said:

Sure thing, happy to help.  A baffle is a steel pipe that is put inside the forge, and then the knife is placed inside the pipe.  It keeps direct flame off of the blade, and allows a much more even heat on the knife.  Here is the pyrometer and thermocouple that I use.  I have the Type K 8 gauge ceramic probe from the drop down menu.
I am able to do some decent heat treating in my forge, but it is really difficult to sustain a steady temperature over time without a lot of babysitting of the gas regulator and ball valves.  I have since moved to a heat treating oven, which is great (but a lot more expensive).

 Yeah ive attempted to soak some blades before by fiddling around with my regulator and choke on my venturi burner, but without any way to read temp it was kind of futile. Would this same thermocouple be appropriate for use in an electric heat treating oven if I were to eventually build one you think?

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51 minutes ago, Connor Lyons said:

 Yeah ive attempted to soak some blades before by fiddling around with my regulator and choke on my venturi burner, but without any way to read temp it was kind of futile. Would this same thermocouple be appropriate for use in an electric heat treating oven if I were to eventually build one you think?

Yes, it would work, but it's not what you should use.  You would want to make sure you get a PID with a relay instead of that pyrometer.  A PID is programmable and would use the relay to turn the juice off once at temp.

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I just tried hardening a blade  out of 80CRV2  in  warm canola oil. I've used  it before with fine results, but this one turned out a little funky. I used a pipe in my ribbon forge so the atmosphere was pretty  perfect. Normalized three times and quenched on the 4th. At first it seemed good, but a file seemed to bite into the edge a bit more than i'm used to. 

I decided to go for a second quench. Warmed up the oil more until it was quite warm to the touch, did two more normalizing cycles and  a quench on the third.  It seemed a bit harder, but again the file bit into the edge a little more than makes me comfortable. The spine seemed much glassier than the edge, which makes me feel like the edge should have hardened too. At this point I'm thinking it might be a very deep decard layer. The spine thickness at its thickest is 3/16" and  the edge is quite thin: 1/32".

I haven't yet ground down to see if it hardens up deeper down. I notice someone earlier in this thread mentioned this might happen with this steel.  Any one else seeing this?

Thanks,

Eric

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8 minutes ago, Eric Dennis said:

I'm thinking it might be a very deep decard layer.

Did you soak it?

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Not for longer than 20 seconds. 

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I had around 0.006" thick decarb layer on mine after a total of 20 minutes soak. 

At which temp did you quench and temper?

Edited by Joël Mercier

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For some reason I always get a deep layer of decarb when I harden this steel. I would be surprised if you didn't find hardened steel after some grinding.

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I was using declosence and a magnet to judge temperature. It was a bit above non-magnetic at quench. I did some light grinding and I'm pretty sure it was decarb. Tomorrow when I have more time I will know more and report back- maybe with a picture as well. I will look into soaking this steel for future heat treats as it seems that's whats working for people. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Eric Dennis said:

I was using declosence and a magnet to judge temperature. It was a bit above non-magnetic at quench. I did some light grinding and I'm pretty sure it was decarb. Tomorrow when I have more time I will know more and report back- maybe with a picture as well. I will look into soaking this steel for future heat treats as it seems that's whats working for people. 

 

 

We had a long discussion on another thread about soaking this steel. Though being harmless, soaking it more than 2 minutes total might not give any real benefit. 

Besides that, JJ and a few others claim a sub critical normalizing cycle will improve it's toughness. 

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Cool, I'll look for that thread.

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80CrV2 decarbs like mad.  You have to file a bit away to get through to the hardened steel like D. Giagni mentioned.  Every single blade in 80CrV2 I have made is like this. 

I don't know that a sub-critical soak will make it tougher, but it certainly will make it easier to machine.  That is a spheroidizing anneal, and Aldo's steel comes out of the box like that.  You are basically returning the steel to the state you got it in.

  

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Yeah,  I'm pretty certain it was  a decarb issue. Everything seemed super hard except for the edge. Glad to know about this for the future. 

Thanks,

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I'm going to play with low carbon for a bit (n00b alert), but I did purchase some 80CRV2 from NJ Steel Baron who claimed it was as good to work with as 5160. I didn't see this link published anywhere on this forum, but you've likely seen it before at iforgeiron  :  http://cdna.terasrenki.com/ds/1.2235_80CrV2_Datasheet_1.pdf

Do those annealing temps look right? 

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I would not bother much with annealing. Simply normalize right after forging, it will leave the steel soft enough. The quenching temperatures seem ok. I know Wes uses the lower austenizing temp range (1475f) and I have used the upper one (1525f). Both of us seem to have got good results. 

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On 6/12/2018 at 7:21 AM, Joël Mercier said:

I would not bother much with annealing. Simply normalize right after forging, it will leave the steel soft enough. The quenching temperatures seem ok. I know Wes uses the lower austenizing temp range (1475f) and I have used the upper one (1525f). Both of us seem to have got good results. 

I actually do the higher end temp as well Joël. (I had to reread the entire thread to make sure I hadn't said 1475 somewhere :lol:).  Kevin the Prof does the 1475.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Wes Detrick said:

I actually do the higher end temp as well Joël. (I had to reread the entire thread to make sure I hadn't said 1475 somewhere :lol:).  Kevin the Prof does the 1475.

Sorry about that! 

Edit: hey, you finally figured out how to type umlauts!

Edited by Joël Mercier

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12 hours ago, Joël Mercier said:

Sorry about that! 

Edit: hey, you finally figured out how to type umlauts!

No apologies necessary!  (And no I didn't, I just copy and pasted your name :lol:)

  • Haha 3

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