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Joshua States

Forging vs. Stock Removal

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Necessity is the mother of invention I've always been told.................. B)

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Another reason against grinding then: drinking beer through a straw :wacko: I draw file, so I can drink beer whenever I want :)

 

 

Yes. A pipe, a nice mug of ale, some tunes and some draw-filing. It makes me shudder to think what I've put up with for a pay check.

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Yes. A pipe, a nice mug of ale, some tunes and some draw-filing. It makes me shudder to think what I've put up with for a pay check.

 

It's slower, but then, none of it is lost time :)

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Yes. A pipe, a nice mug of ale, some tunes and some draw-filing. It makes me shudder to think what I've put up with for a pay check.

Stop that! Stop that right now! You are tempting me.

I'll keep shuddering for many years to come.........that's if this day job doesn't kill me first.

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WHEW Glad I didn't get into that scrum at the beginning.  A newbie wouldn't stand a chance.  LOL

You guys are great love it

Robert

.

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I think in the end it all comes down to preference. I started forging and learned a lot of skills. Right now I'm doing stock removal, but still thinking about making a good propane knife forge. 

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1 hour ago, Brian Myers said:

I think in the end it all comes down to preference. I started forging and learned a lot of skills. Right now I'm doing stock removal, but still thinking about making a good propane knife forge. 

I don't think that you are taking this conversation seriously enough. I think you should read all the previous posts and get your argument fine tuned.........;)

Edited by Joshua States

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You all are making me miss my forge! My hands have been burn/blister free since January and it's just not natural. It's a bit of a Catch 22 with the beer thing, since I can drink while I'm down here but I can't forge until I'm back in the US. 

 

I should write down all the things I want to forge when I get back. My KITHchen contribution and a gaucho knife are what I want to start with for sure. 

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Smashing steel to shape is definitely more satisfying than band sawing out the profile and grinding.

The thing I don't like about grinding is the body position required for freehand grinding. I usually have to stand with my arms bent to 45 degrees, head tilted forward and looking down at the blade. This is not a good for any part of your posture. There's just no other way to get the control needed to do freehand grinding.

But I really like fullers and hollow grinds. So grinding is a necessary evil. The secret to making it bearable is to have the fastest, most horsepowerest grinder.

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On 3/29/2017 at 2:19 PM, Brian Madigan said:

I usually have to stand with my arms bent to 45 degrees, head tilted forward and looking down at the blade. This is not a good for any part of your posture. There's just no other way to get the control needed to do freehand grinding.

Does your platen carriage have these two bolts for tilt adjustment?

Platen tilt (2).JPG

If so, then loosen them up and tilt it forward until you can comfortably look down the platen while standing straight. My platen will tilt forward 45* which is too far for comfort. About 22.5* works pretty well.

Platen tilt.JPG

 

Edited by Joshua States

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Yeah, I have the same KMG. I'm talking about freehand grinding on a contact wheel, no work rest. Maybe I need to raise the whole grinder up higher.

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6 hours ago, Brian Madigan said:

Yeah, I have the same KMG. I'm talking about freehand grinding on a contact wheel, no work rest. Maybe I need to raise the whole grinder up higher.

That could be worth trying. My work bench is pretty tall, so my grinder is pretty high off the ground (it's a grizzly 2x72" and the top of the platten is about shoulder height). At first, my grip didn't feel stable that high, but over time I got the posture down and it's actually pretty comfortable; I rest my elbows on the front of my chest so they are 90 degrees and it's high enough that my neck never hurts from looking down. 

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2 hours ago, Aiden CC said:

That could be worth trying. My work bench is pretty tall, so my grinder is pretty high off the ground (it's a grizzly 2x72" and the top of the platten is about shoulder height). At first, my grip didn't feel stable that high, but over time I got the posture down and it's actually pretty comfortable; I rest my elbows on the front of my chest so they are 90 degrees and it's high enough that my neck never hurts from looking down. 

+1

You can see in the photos that my KMG sits on a workbench that is 36" tall. That puts the work rest at sternum height and the center of my 10" wheel is right there too. Of course, I'm only 5'-8" tall so, YMMV.

Edited by Joshua States

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Ed Caffrey recently posted this video on grinder height, I am pretty much in agreement with him and Joshua on it.  Posture makes all the difference when it comes to grinding or forging.

https://youtu.be/-i5d4-s-Fnc

 

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Sorry, but I'm a stock removal guy, and gonna have to remain so, lol. Even if I could afford to set up for forging (and learn how to), my arthritis would prevent me from such an endeavor. A mountain biking crash 20 years ago wasted my right shoulder (I'm right handed of course), and 28 years of guitar playing has taken it's toll on my fingers. Getting older sucks... :angry:

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On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 4:52 PM, Jason McEntee said:

Sorry, but I'm a stock removal guy, and gonna have to remain so, lol. 

That's OK. It doesn't make you a bad person........

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Page 44 of Jim Hirsoulas book Complete Bladesmith he mentions austentite forging or aust-forging, working the steel under the critical temp. Is this the same as the out-of-date belief in edge packing, or similar to the more scientific Goddard thermal finishing heat? 

Forging also leads to one arm being bigger than the other which can lead to dubious questions!

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the top of my forge is flat, and works great for keeping my coffee warm. i bet i could warm up a cheeseburger while im working.

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There is something about a hot forge and scale flying off an anvil that keeps unexpected visitors at a respectful distance. They tend to be more civil about getting your attention then when you are grinding. Therefore forging is safer!

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1 hour ago, Vern Wimmer said:

There is something about a hot forge and scale flying off an anvil that keeps unexpected visitors at a respectful distance. They tend to be more civil about getting your attention then when you are grinding. Therefore forging is safer!

That's for sure!  I have my wife trained to turn off the shop lights when she wants to get my attention while I'm grinding.  I started that after the first time she snuck up behind me and poked me in the back, causing a pattern-welded seax blade to drop into the water bucket when I jumped.

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4 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

That's for sure!  I have my wife trained to turn off the shop lights when she wants to get my attention while I'm grinding.  I started that after the first time she snuck up behind me and poked me in the back, causing a pattern-welded seax blade to drop into the water bucket when I jumped.

Not to belabor the point but my shop is on the main street of a very tiny business area of a very tiny community. When I worked in the shop a few years ago visitors were not uncommon. Now that I am going back at it I am going to take steps to align my grinding and buffing operations so I face the door when working. I aready have the forge at a right angle to the door so a visitor can see all they need from the doorway and the light from the open door will get my attention. 

Being surprised and simultaniously swearing and flinging a knife blade across the shop is considered "offputting" by more delicate potential customers. Go figure????

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

That's for sure!  I have my wife trained to turn off the shop lights when she wants to get my attention while I'm grinding.  I started that after the first time she snuck up behind me and poked me in the back, causing a pattern-welded seax blade to drop into the water bucket when I jumped.

I need to train mine to do that!

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On 2/2/2017 at 9:24 AM, Joshua States said:

 

Of course the phase of the moon has to be right and the forge pointed due east and a whole host of other secret knowledge that is too copious to share here......... :blink:

 

You have to hold your mouth just right too. I learned that from a Charlie Ochs video. 

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On 3/29/2017 at 4:19 PM, Brian Madigan said:

But I really like fullers and hollow grinds. So grinding is a necessary evil.

Bah! With the right press dies, you could do all the fullers and hollows you could want. Forging is the only true path to a worthwhile blade. Which is why every time I set up my gough jig, I flagellate myself, and burn a tool in penitence to Haephestus. 

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On 3/29/2017 at 2:19 PM, Brian Madigan said:

 

 

 

On 3/29/2017 at 2:19 PM, Brian Madigan said:

But I really like fullers and hollow grinds. So grinding is a necessary evil. The secret to making it bearable is to have the fastest, most horsepowerest grinder.

I understand that they have now unearthed a third century, b.c.e., swordsmiths shop. It is finally going to give us a chance to prove whether they used a 2-wheel or a 4- grinder back then.

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