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Brian Dougherty

A knife with no style

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Hi All,

I wouldn't let myself start a new knife project until I finished my press build, but now that it is up and running I am getting a very late start on my KITH  project.  Since I now have a press I had to try making a billet with it.  It is amazing how much faster this was than by hand.  After I reached 144 layers, my handle fell off.  I was going to weld on a new handle and fold it again, but impatience got the better of me.

The billet ended up the wrong proportions to make a gyuto as I had planned.  Instead I formed a tang, and kind of let the blade form organically.  It's turning out like a narrow french style knife...This is the billet cleaned up:

IMG_20170514_145904226_zpsstlkdrgv.jpg

I decided to drill in some divots to enhance the pattern a bit.  This was done with a 1/2" ball end mill:

IMG_20170514_181650810_zpsa6d646ry.jpg

Edited by Brian Dougherty

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I drew the bar out to about 1.25" wide by 3/16" thick:

IMG_20170520_101828577_zpssqam9dwu.jpg

Then, following them method Owen demonstrated in his kitchen knife video a while ago, I clipped of a corner:

IMG_20170520_102701041_zpsngf3s9eo.jpg

Then turned it around and drew out a tang:

IMG_20170520_105006794_zpstfgglglt.jpg

Then I profiled the blade, beveled it, and then drew out the distal taper.  In the past I have tapered before beveling, but I found Owen's approach to be easier.  My forging skills are still a bit limited, but I'm getting better at forging to shape:

IMG_20170520_113811631_zps3yigipuz.jpg

 

Here are a couple more pics of the spine and the edge after forging:

IMG_20170520_113911721_zpsqbfz3qba.jpg

IMG_20170520_113923126_zpsywltqmzk.jpg

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I put the blade into a PH Minus bath to eat off the scale while I made some lunch:

IMG_20170520_120251648_zpsg9nzoyrh.jpg

Here it is after a tasty grilled cheese sandwich:

IMG_20170520_124314366_zpseupaby5v.jpg

I rough ground the blade, and covered it in anti-scale compound for quenching.  I was concerned about the quench because there is a hint of a weld inclusion along the spine.  However it held fine in the quench, and rings like a bell when flicked with a finger.  The blade is in the oven for a first temper at 350F right now.

IMG_20170520_134123507_zpslkxossjo.jpg

Edited by Brian Dougherty
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Watching this one Brian, with interest and think I just learned something! 

IMG_20170520_120251648_zpsg9nzoyrh.jpg

5 hours ago, Brian Dougherty said:

 

I put the blade into a PH Minus bath to eat off the scale while I made some lunch:

 

Can you elaborate a little more on this PH Minus bath. I see the can in the background of the pic. I am guessing looking at the can maybe it was designed for use with a swimming pool! What is this and how do use it? It looks like the pan is on a hot plate???

By the way the tittle, "A knife with no style" is incorrect it is showing your style and right now I am liking your style!  :s12205:

 

 

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Thanks C Craft, 

The PH Minus thing is something I picked up on this forum from Alan L.  It is Sodium Bisulfate, but I buy it as PH reducer in the pool supply area.  It works faster than vinegar even when cold,  However, if you supply a little heat, it dissolves the scale very quickly.  I found it puts off a lot of nasty fumes when hot, so I only do this outside.  

It is an interesting reaction.  For the first several minutes, it doesn't seem like it is doing anything.  Once it starts going, however, it really goes fast.

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Nice - good to see the press being used also. :)

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I had a bit of a warp at the tip after heat treating.  I've never tried straightening a blade while tempering, and since part of KITH is to learn something, I figured this was a perfect opportunity to try.  

First I tempered the blade at 350F twice for two hours at a time.  

Then I clamped the blade to a piece of 1/4" key stock with a small shim under the apex of the bend.

After two hours at 390F, it came out much straighter.  However, there was a second curve that was now apparent so I moved the clamps and shim, and put i back in the oven at 390F for a couple more hours.  The end result is really quite good. :)

Here are some pics of the very tip before straightening, and in the clamps:

IMG_20170521_115035694_zps1pqfqvk5.jpg

IMG_20170521_115008322_zpstptjclcv.jpg

IMG_20170521_115224571_zpsj1r3lexa.jpg

 

Edited by Brian Dougherty
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Here is a shot of the straightened blade:

IMG_20170522_090816841_zpse0eaez8m.jpg

...and another one once I worked it up to 120 grit and did a quick test etch.  Pretty much down to hand polishing now.  I don't enjoy the polishing that much,but it is always a relief when I get a blade to this point because I am not likely to screw it up beyond repair anymore. :)

IMG_20170522_090844860_zpsq3txdubu.jpg

 

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Nice. With that much time (6hrs) tempering to straighten, is there a risk of taking too much hardness out? 

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Chris, I'm not the expert that some are on here, but my understanding is that it is the ultimate temperature, not the time that will get it too soft.  I can say from my experience with polishing it that it is still very hard.

 My update for the day:  I am into the hand polishing now.  I got through 100 grit, and part way through 220.  Do you all know that almost orgasmic moment when a really stubborn scratch all of a sudden disappears and you can move on to the next grit?  Still not quite there with this grit, maybe tomorrow...

 

IMG_20170522_201717175.jpg

Edited by Brian Dougherty

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31 minutes ago, Brian Dougherty said:

I can say from my experience with polishing it that it is still very hard.

Hahaha, thanks Brian, hopefully someone jumps in here to shed more light on it for me. I am a novice with HT. 

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2 hours ago, Chris C-S said:

Nice. With that much time (6hrs) tempering to straighten, is there a risk of taking too much hardness out? 

Tempering is time and temperature dependant, but temperature is far more critical than time.  Even a 24 hour temper will not make as much difference in hardness as 15° will... I generally do 3 x 2 hour tempers anyway, probably overkill but I like to be sure...

That's a good looking knife, I'm looking forward to seeing it etched.  

Edited by GEzell
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1 minute ago, GEzell said:

Tempering is time and temperature dependant, but temperature is far more critical than time.  Even a 24 hour temper will not make as much difference in hardness as 15° will... 

Thanks. :) 

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This isn't much of a pic, but I got through 400 grit tonight.  Just a few more grits to go...

IMG_20170524_210352098.jpg

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I got the blade polished up to 1500 grit tonight.  It isn't a perfect 1500 grit polish, but I like to get up pretty high before etching:

IMG_20170526_202053082_zpsku0kb8tx.jpg

Then I did a very light etch.  Because this is a kitchen knife, i want the surface to be smooth, so I just put it in the ferric for about 5 minutes to frost the 1095.  Then I polished it with 2000 grit backed by a leather pad.

IMG_20170526_205642506_zps0n7mlpst.jpg

It actually looks nicer in person.  It is sort of a frosted grey on mirror grey finish.

I'm basically done with the blade, and need to get on to the handle.  I'm a bit stuck there,  This was going to be a Japanese inspired knife, but the billet led me to more of a French pattern.  However, I am stuck with an eastern style tang, so I think this is going to be a fusion of the two styles.  I'm leaning toward an octagon handle with maple, a copper spacer, and either a horn, or blackwood ferrule.

Edited by Brian Dougherty

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Today was handle day!  I took way too many pics, so this may get a bit dull for some of you. :)

I decided to go with a maple body capped with ironwood on each end with some copper and nickel silver spacers.  To start with, I had to do some machining operations on the maple body.  I didn't feel like scraping out a blind tang slot today, and since I was going to use a wood ferrule, I had another option.

I don't have a 4-jaw chuck for my wood lathe, so I chucked up the maple block in the South Bend, and roughly indicated it in.

IMG_20170527_102020096_zpslxcudwgw.jpg

Then I turned a tenon on one end:

IMG_20170527_104011048_zpsmdxw4hcr.jpg

The reason i went to the trouble to make this tenon on the lathe was so that I could then drill a hole right down the center of the tenon:

IMG_20170527_104201790_zps7pjhkr8b.jpg

IMG_20170527_104803456_zps8zrnthm3.jpg

This gives me a cavity for the tang to fit into.

Edited by Brian Dougherty

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I turned the piece around, and cut a smaller tenon on the other end.  The reason for the tenons was to create a nice mechanical bond for the ironwood end caps.  The front one of which will slotted for a tight fit to the tang.  Here you can see the two pieces of ironwood:

IMG_20170527_110601296_TOP_zps1jwcnm2g.j

I used a forstner bit to drill out pockets for the tenons:

IMG_20170527_111100378_zpsxupd5cdy.jpg

Then I cut some spacers that would fit over the tenons. Here are all the parts:

IMG_20170527_130133722_zpsvxxaaq1y.jpg

I cut a slot in the front cap that was a tight fit for the tang, and then it was time to glue everything up.

IMG_20170527_152207394_zpsnbkkm0zh.jpg

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After curing for a couple of hours, I cleaned the handle blank up a bit:

IMG_20170527_153515715_zpscwehbqgv.jpg

...and then shaped it to a tapered octagon:

IMG_20170527_162035613_zpsla4x8uma.jpg

Here is a test fit after polishing up to 2000 grit, and rubbing in some boiled linseed oil.

IMG_20170527_221735628_zpsvfaw835h.jpg

The fit is tight enough that I have to drive the handle on, but there is still a cavity inside the handle.  When I fit it the final time, I will use a syringe to fill the cavity with slightly less epoxy than it will take to fill the empty space.  (I know the volume of the cavity, and the volume of the tang)  Once that is cured, I will drill through the handle for a pin and peen it over.

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Cool, thanks for sharing your progress pics on this build. Someone - not me :( - will really enjoy owning this beast. Congrats on a lovely looking blade (so far)

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I put an edge on this knife last night.  After final polishing, the edge ended up at 0.012" thick.  

IMG_20170527_200811654_zps0s0qw4wx.jpg

Here is a video of some test cuts.  The edge is still a bit rough.  I need to come back with a finer stone.

I still need to epoxy on the handle and put a pin through it.  After that it is just some touch up polishing and I'll be done.

Edited by Brian Dougherty
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Brian, Thanks for sharing, I picked up several great tips from this thread, very nice work. 

 

Edited by Jim Pierce
cat jumped on computer before finishing and posted

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That looks awesome Brian! And that is no doubt a good looking and will be a great performing knife for sure! Some lucky guy (hopefully me!) will have that in their kitchen!

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Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments.  These will be the last WIP pics.  I finished everything up today, but I will try to take some glamour shots and post those here before the deadline.

I know that I need a little less than 4cc of epoxy to fill the space in the handle.  So I put 2cc of epoxy and 2 more cc of hardener in a syringe: (you can see the two different liquids as I haven't mixed them yet)

IMG_20170529_132251788_zps94obsm92.jpg

Then I mixed up the epoxy with a stick, and turned the syringe tip up to let the air rise up to the needle.  Then I push out the air along with any of the poorly mixed epoxy that was already in the tip:

IMG_20170529_132422793_zpstrkdn61d.jpg

Then it is just a matter of squirting the epoxy to the bottom of the tang slot.  Use the biggest diameter needle you can get.  This one is 16g, and is almost too small to get the epoxy to flow out of.

IMG_20170529_132445674_zpsqsc1f07r.jpg

I cleaned up the little bit of ooze out I had held it in a vice for a few hours to let the epoxy cure.  The wire nut is to remind me that there is a blade pointing up.  Even at that, this is a pretty poor choice of locations to hold this while curing.  One of our brethren recently had a close call and almost lost an eye doing something like this.

IMG_20170529_132937790_zpsp7hjbzgc.jpg

I managed to forget to take pics as I put a copper pin through the handle and tang.  You'll have to wait for the final glamour shots to see the pin.

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OK, I'm going to call this one done.  Somehow, I managed to bugger up the pin hole, but other than that, I am pretty happy with it.  I cleaned the edge up a bit on a finer stone, and I think it should serve it's new master quite well. (If it doesn't bite them first ;) )

KITH%202017_zpsvrci8xrj.jpg

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That's a nice little package. I particularly like that handle/spacer design.

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