Eric Dennis Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I just finished building a ribbon burner forge, fired it up, and I'm not getting the heat from it I would expect. I can bring it to a bright orange, but it's having a hard time getting past that. I feel like the forge build should allow for forge welding temps as I followed a pretty standard procedure. So, my guess is an issue with the burner/blower, plumbing, etc. At this point I think my blower is a bit too strong, so I need to set up a second baffle after the blower it seems that I need to keep the gate on the front totally shut. Also, as I bring the atmosphere toward neutral (no dragon's breath), I begin to get an intense, low, vibration noise. I'm assuming this is the burner beginning to blow itself out? Because of this it feels like I can't quite bring it to a true neutral flame. So far i've been running it between 2-4 psi propane. I will give a very quick low-down on the forge build otherwise I can answer questions. Also I posted a pretty detailed forge build over at iforgeiron with lots of pics and a video of it running the first time (in the video I didn't quite have the atmosphere correct) , etc. HERE: https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/50761-questions-on-ribbon-burners/ Forge: 20# propane tank shell, 2" rigidized kaowool, 1/2"-ish kast-o-lite 30 over the wool, high alumina kiln shelf floor, everything covered in plistix, insulating firebrick doors. Burner: Followed Emmerling's design, used mizzou to cast with. Blower: https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/forge-fan-fuel/blowers/gas-forge-blower-2.html I can post pictures here, but I already have on the thread linked above, so unless someone asked for a specific photo I will wait for now. Ok, that's a start. Looking for suggestions on tuning this thing up to its full potential, which I believe is attainable. Thanks in advance, Eric Edited July 13, 2017 by Eric Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Coe Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Eric, you really need a gate valve. It is very difficult to adjust the air and adjust the fuel/air mixture with out it. Wayne Wayne Coe Artist Blacksmith 729 Peters Ford Road Sunbright, Tennessee 37872 423-628-6444 www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com waynecoe@highland.net Wayne Coe Artist Blacksmith 729 Peters Ford Road Sunbright, Tennessee 706-273-8017waynecoe@highland.netwww.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Dennis Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I guess I will start there then. Do you have recommendations on making an easy gate valve? Any thoughts on the vibration sound? Edited July 13, 2017 by Eric Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Dennis Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Also Wayne, what sort of cfm/pressure is the blower you are using on your ribbon forge. It sounds like I made a design very close to your recommendations so I am curious where mine differs from yours. What sort of gas pressure do you usually run it at? Edited July 13, 2017 by Eric Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Coe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 For a gate valve just buy an appropriate size gate valve from a plumbing supply or check on Ebay. I got my 2" valve from Ebay. I have the largest of the blowers sold by Kayne and Son but don't think that you need more than the smallest. I found it impossible to accurately adjust the air supply with out the gate valve. Wayne Wayne Coe Artist Blacksmith 729 Peters Ford Road Sunbright, Tennessee 37872 423-628-6444 www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com waynecoe@highland.net Wayne Coe Artist Blacksmith 729 Peters Ford Road Sunbright, Tennessee 706-273-8017waynecoe@highland.netwww.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Ysselstein Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) Eric, What is the total area of all your openings.coming out of the refractory block ( 14 x ? ) ...why do you have that little hole at the gas inlet to the air supply-----are you mixing the gas and air in the pipe some how???? That block of ceramic may be a resistance to your gas flow compared to what would be an equivalent single hole ( equal cross areas ) My litlle $29.00 shop vac produces 23 cm of pressure at 50V and that is with a lol of leakage at the vac. I suggest a higher pressure blower like a small shop vac controlled by a variable transformer. I would also make sure I could get enough gas to the higher air flow. To measure the pressure of your current blower just stick the end of a blower hose or pipe into a bucket of water and see at what depth the air flow stops and starts again..that is the inches of water the blower can generate...see if yours really can do 5cm.... Good luck. Caution as to where you will place that gate valve, some blowers use the blown air ( or at least part of it ) to cool the motor, some motors are independently cooled. Jan Edited July 14, 2017 by Jan Ysselstein info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Dennis Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 I couldn't find a gate valve locally, so for now I am using a 1.5" pvc ball valve to control the air flow. It instantly works more or less as should. Take a little while to come to heat, but I think the kiln shelf along with the fact that I wasn't cranking it contributed to this. Once it was to heat I was able to hold it at a forge welding temp at 1 psi propane coming in. The vibration noise is gone as well which made me really happy. The blower seems to be plenty strong enough. At around 1.5 psi propane I have the gate on the actual blower slightly open, and the ball valve 3/4 closed. After about an hour running it didn't feel too hot which was good. Jan, I'm not sure which block of ceramic you are referring to. Do you mean the ribbon burner itself creating more resistance. In that case I believe you are correct that a slightly high pressure is required to overcome the resistance and back pressure created in the forge. There are 14 crayon holes, each crayon I believe is 5/16" across. This comes out to 1.078" area combined. The 1/6" hole is a design I learned from a blacksmith on a different burner design that I've borrowed for this ribbon burner. It creates a nice, high pressure stream of propane that can mix with the air. I have never tried a blown burner without this design so I'm not sure how it compared to a simple 1/4" propane pipe dumping the propane into the forge. Maybe it is redundant to have this after a needle valve? It seems to work well on my other forge though, so I figured I'd try it again. Now that I have this thing running more or less properly, I will post pictures of the setup on the iforgeiron thread Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Coe Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I have the 1/4" pipe dumping directly into the air supply. yes, having a smaller gas supply in addition to the needle valve is redundant, except that you can get only what the smaller orifice will allow. I would get rid of it. Wayne Wayne Coe Artist Blacksmith 729 Peters Ford Road Sunbright, Tennessee 37872 423-628-6444 www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com waynecoe@highland.net Wayne Coe Artist Blacksmith 729 Peters Ford Road Sunbright, Tennessee 706-273-8017waynecoe@highland.netwww.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Dennis Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 You convinced me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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