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As mentioned in my safari knife thread the design called for a scandi grind at 13 degrees so I made a jig to do that but the final sharpening after the heat treat was a bit of a chore and the first one seemed to take forever

There is a New Zealand made sharpening system called the scary sharp that will make it much easier to sharpen the (relatively)  long face of the scandi grind and  by finishing with the hardest stone which feels almost like marble it will leave a polished grind that will contrast nicely with the 600 grit hand finish I take the rest of the blade to. At 14lb this is not some light weight offering and at NZ$510 it is not cheap but it is very precise and extremely effective so worth the expence to be able to send knives off that are not only scary sharp but also very accurately sharpened which I was finding was not necessarily the case doing it by hand and by eye.

http://www.scarysharp.co.nz/

Edited by Garry Keown
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I have read your Safari knife posts with interest. As I recall one of the reasons for choosing the Scandi grind was ease of sharpening in the field. Have you found that once you establish the grinds the knives are easy to sharpen in the field without this tool?

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Thakn you for the considered question Brian

The reason for the scandi grind was that so few people could maintain a consistent angle for the (usual in my case) 20 degree angle on the full flat grind and it was decided that the wider surface of the scandi ground egde made it fool proof to keep that wider surface on the stone to touch up an egde if it needed it. The other reason was that the heavier behind the blade section made it less likely to be subject to damage if heavy work (that is not meat or skin) was undertaken with the knife.

Having just got into making these knives with the scandi grind I have not had field experience with with them but have never had to touch up any of my blades in the field as I only ever need them for meat and skin so a good edge will take care of as many animals as I may get in an outing.

Going by the reports from the testing sessions that were made to come to this design it was found that field sharpening was much simplified

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Thanks for your response! I have only made a couple of knives with scandi grinds. Like you found it is hard to get both sides perfectly the same! I also  found that the large amount of surface contacting the sharpening stone made progress slow when doing a sharpening compared to a V grind or a convex grind. 

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I have the scary sharp system now so will have a play with it tomorrow and see how it takes the blade from the HT edge to a sharp edge and how even it will keep the edge from side to side.

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Most pleased with the exactness I get from the system Brian. After the grind I correct any little discrepencies with the system before HT and can take it to almost zero edge so that the clean-up after HT takes much less effort than the first one that I did all of the correcting after HT.

The system makes the process much less effort and I know I am sending knives off with the best edge and exact angles. The best thing was that the manufacturer wanted to trade a couple of knives for it so that made no financial outlay which leaves me feeling that I got a very good deal as well as a good sharpening system.

Edited by Garry Keown
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In my experience the time and/or money you spend making or buying sharpening or grinding jigs is better spent practicing sharpening or grinding by eye.

I have found that getting to know the work intimately by feel rather than just the theory pays dividends in adaptability and speed, with no compromise in quality.

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That may be your experience Dan but in practice not everyone will have the same results and the jigs are one way of ensuring that knife to knife there is a repeatable blade grind. The time to make the jig was one morning and that pales in comparison to the number of knfe blades that might be put inthe reject drawer while trying to master the freehand grinding that so many advocate.

With respect, the grinding jig and or sharpening system is a legitimate aid for many knife makers and takes nothing away from the finished knife and to sugest otherwise is not helpfull .

 

Edit to add

I wonder if you view the file guide in the same negative light

Edited by Garry Keown
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17 hours ago, Garry Keown said:

Most pleased with the exactness I get from the system Brian. After the grind I correct any little discrepencies with the system before HT and can take it to almost zero edge so that the clean-up after HT takes much less effort than the first one that I did all of the correcting after HT.

The system makes the process much less effort and I know I am sending knives off with the best edge and exact angles. The best thing was that the manufacturer wanted to trade a couple of knives for it so that made no financial outlay which leaves me feeling that I got a very good deal as well as a good sharpening system.

Success in knife making is a good thing! 

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On 1 August 2017 at 9:57 PM, Garry Keown said:

That may be your experience Dan but in practice not everyone will have the same results and the jigs are one way of ensuring that knife to knife there is a repeatable blade grind. The time to make the jig was one morning and that pales in comparison to the number of knfe blades that might be put inthe reject drawer while trying to master the freehand grinding that so many advocate.

With respect, the grinding jig and or sharpening system is a legitimate aid for many knife makers and takes nothing away from the finished knife and to sugest otherwise is not helpfull .

 

Edit to add

I wonder if you view the file guide in the same negative light

I don't want to step on your toes or anything, Garry, but it seems that putting the first x number of knives in the reject drawer is how one learns? Having that big pile of whoopsies gives you the confidence of not just knowing the right way to do it, but knowing many of the wrong ways of doing it too. Knowing which route leads where, in a manner of speaking.

But if you want your knives to look like they were milled, perhaps better to get a milling machine? 

To answer your question, I don't view jigs in a negative light, rather I view taking the time to learn your business, whether for fun or for profit, in a very positive light. File guides are different, I can see their use, though I don't use one myself. I feel like I would need a guide to put the guide on straight.

 

Edited by Dan P.
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2 hours ago, Dan P. said:

I

But if you want your knives to look like they were milled, perhaps better to get a milling machine? 

 

 

You are comming accross as either arrogant or condescending and neither is welcome

Edited by Garry Keown
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Perhaps to defuse the situation, let's just focus on how to sharpen a scandi grind. Jigs or free hand, the journey there is a personal one and to each their own. No need to prove a point. Information is what benefits all. 

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A friend of mine built a jig that he would clamp to the work rest of his 2x72.  It consists of a piece of steel plate which leans toward the belt and it is set at the exact angle needed to create the scandi grind.  You place the knife edge up against the steel plate and feed the knife into the belt, drawing it across lengthwise (like a regular grinding pass).  You can mark a line on the fixture so that you have a marker for keeping the spine level.  It creates a very even grind.  Hell you could clamp something to the plate or make an adjustable fixture to rest the spine on.  Anyhow, he grinds until he is down to zero, then changes out to a worn 300 grit belt, and then chases the wire across the edge.  He then buffs the edge, and it is scary sharp.

Edited by Wes Detrick
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1 hour ago, Wes Detrick said:

A friend of mine built a jig that he would clamp to the work rest of his 2x72.  It consists of a piece of steel plate which leans toward the belt and it is set at the exact angle needed to create the scandi grind.  You place the knife edge up against the steel plate and feed the knife into the belt, drawing it across lengthwise (like a regular grinding pass).  You can mark a line on the fixture so that you have a marker for keeping the spine level.  It creates a very even grind.  Hell you could clamp something to the plate or make an adjustable fixture to rest the spine on.  Anyhow, he grinds until he is down to zero, then changes out to a worn 300 grit belt, and then chases the wire across the edge.  He then buffs the edge, and it is scary sharp.

Scandi grinds (and saber grinds somewhat as well) lend themselves to jigs like this. With a full flat grind, you need some flexibility to get the grind all the way to the spine and have the edge thickness you want, but with a scandi you choose your angle and grind until the bevels meet in the middle and you get a burr. If my grinder had a halfway decent tool rest, I would definitely consider a jig. One thing I've learned is that a consistent angle on a scandi grind is critical to make a knife that is pleasant to use and maintain. If there are dips, convexity, or a change in angle, sharpening is going to be a PITA since you'll need to bring the whole bevel down to flat by hand. Unless you use some kind of jig/sharpening system (or take the old school approach of a very large diameter hollow grind) you'll need to touch up the grind up on a flat surface to get out the dips and remove the (very small) convexity from the flat platen.

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11 hours ago, Garry Keown said:

You are comming accross as either arrogant or condescending and neither is welcome

Perhaps, but as long as we can disagree in a civil manner my (many and various) personality flaws shouldn't really matter too much.

 

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