Charles dP Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Hi Everyone. I recently stumbled upon an online bladesmith's version of Dr John Verhoeven's Book Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel In the preface he has kindly given permission for non-financial-gain download and printing of this amazingly instructive book: "My professional career has been supported by publicly funded institutions. Therefore, I grant any user copyright permission to download and print a copy of this book for personal use or any teacher to do the same for their students. I do not grant rights to the text for commercial uses. The copyrights to all figures with citations belong to the original publishers. Copyright permissions were obtained for inclusion of these figures." The book can be found in PDF format here. Our thanks to Dr Verhoeven for this amazing gift. Hope you all find it as useful and interesting as I have. 1 "The way we win matters" (Ender Wiggins) Orson Scott Card Nos qui libertate donati nescimus quid constat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Thanks for finding that, Charles. It is an excellent book! I'm glad Dr. Verhoeven has given permission for this. The first time the pdf version came around he had not, and there was some grumbling. I highly recommend everyone here read it. It makes the stuff some of us say about heat treating much more understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles dP Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 No problem. Owen Bush told me about the book Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist, and it was while I was searching for a copy less than a £100 that I found this one. "The way we win matters" (Ender Wiggins) Orson Scott Card Nos qui libertate donati nescimus quid constat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Checa Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 On 7/29/2017 at 7:35 AM, Charles dP said: Hi Everyone. I recently stumbled upon an online bladesmith's version of Dr John Verhoeven's Book Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel In the preface he has kindly given permission for non-financial-gain download and printing of this amazingly instructive book: "My professional career has been supported by publicly funded institutions. Therefore, I grant any user copyright permission to download and print a copy of this book for personal use or any teacher to do the same for their students. I do not grant rights to the text for commercial uses. The copyrights to all figures with citations belong to the original publishers. Copyright permissions were obtained for inclusion of these figures." The book can be found in PDF format here. Our thanks to Dr Verhoeven for this amazing gift. Hope you all find it as useful and interesting as I have. HI Charles do you have another way to access this? It seems it's not working... Maybe Dropbox or Google drive? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christenberry Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 https://hybridburners.com/documents/verhoeven.pdf 1 Chris www.chrischristenberry.com WHEW!!! If I could only know now what I "thought" I knew back then.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Keown Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Have downloaded this for later perusal. Von Gruff http://www.vongruffknives.com/ The ability to do comes with doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Checa Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 You rock! Thanks so much now I have some lite reading for this quarantine haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles dP Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Thanks Chris 2 "The way we win matters" (Ender Wiggins) Orson Scott Card Nos qui libertate donati nescimus quid constat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christenberry Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 42 minutes ago, Paul Checa said: I have some lite reading for this quarantine You must be a lot smarter than I. I hardly consider that "lite reading". 1 Chris www.chrischristenberry.com WHEW!!! If I could only know now what I "thought" I knew back then.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Checa Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Hahahaha of course I'm not. I am more sarcastic from what I can tell. Hahahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lester Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) How old is that source? My understanding is that the copyright for [i]Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist[/i] belongs to ASM International not John Verhoeven. Also I agree that the book is a little pricey but I'd like to see the money go to the publisher and thus to the author. Could be wrong, heck I've been married three times, but just saying. Doug Edited March 15, 2021 by Doug Lester Additional information HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lester Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I just failed to edit the above entry so I'll tag on another entry. I just stopped being lazy and dug out my copy of the book from a pile one the floor and took a look inside. The face page, or whatever it's called, states "Copyright 2007 by ASM International, All rights reserved". So unless that work that is posted on the net that Dr. Verhoeven gave permission to use for non-commercial purposes is significantly different from the book, I'd say downloading it is a copyright violation. Doug HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christenberry Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Doug, I believe the first two posts in this thread cleared that up. Chris www.chrischristenberry.com WHEW!!! If I could only know now what I "thought" I knew back then.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Exactly. We played copyright cops for a few years befire Dr. Verhoeven added that statement. I even bought the ASM hard copy. The figures are a little different, as are minor text entries, thus with author permission for noncommercial use the download is not a copyright issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christenberry Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 And Blessed I feel for sure, Alan. I believe in copyright laws...............and as a artist mine have been violated and it ticks me off! I could never have afforded to pay the street price for this book and have to admit it will be a long time before I'll be able to read and understand it, but feel fortunate to have it so when I get to a point where it'll all make sense I'll have it. Chris www.chrischristenberry.com WHEW!!! If I could only know now what I "thought" I knew back then.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Yes, that book is pricy. I went to Amazon just to check it out and the second edition is $188. My point on the permission that John Verhoeven gave for the online version of the original book may not longer be his to give. He no longer owns the copyright. You all have to do what you think is right; just giving my opinion. Doug HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 I got that info from Howard Clark, a friend and collaborator of Dr. Verhoeven, AFTER the ASM version came out. I would think if ASM were that concerned we'd have gotten a cease-and-desist by now. And the first edition was $80. It's sort of like the textbook industry. Get a professor to make a text required reading, charge $400 for it, and put out a new edition every other year with just different enough info that the previous edition can't be used on the supplied testing materials. Then offer $5 for the buyback at the end of the semester, and resell for $400. I truly approve of copyright. I do not approve of gaming the system the way the publishers do. It is totally legal for the author to offer the first draft (or any other modification) for noncommercial use, regardless of the publisher's opinion, provided there are differences in the content. In this case there are. You want the ASM second edition? Pay full price. You want the original? Here you go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Blum Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) I'm not sure about textbooks but dealing with medical and research journals who behave just as sleazy as the textbooks. Those if you are nice about it you can send a email to the author and they might sell it to you super cheap or free. This is not every author but a lot just want their info out there and they usually make essentially zero money off their published work. Copyright can be weird in that the publisher holds the copyright by permission of the original creator. It really depends on the contract that was signed for publication vs what is allowed by default by the laws. I know for some textbooks the free online version is the book has expired from copyright or the original authors posted it. The not for commercial use is probably how they can release it but not violate contract or law. Edited March 17, 2021 by Sean Blum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lester Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 NO, I have no intention of buying the second edition. That's almost half of what I will need to buy a new leg vice to replace the one that was stolen from me. Just to make sure, I'm going to give the local pawn shop a check to see if any of my stolen tools have made it there. As far as the book goes it would be nice to buy a copy if it fits into your budget so Dr. Verhoeven can get some money out of his work but $188 is outrageous. I feel sorry for the college kids who will be required to purchase it as a text. Doug HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Weaver Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 I think I joined this forum at some point in the last year or two but didn't really tune in until the last couple of weeks. I've made chisels out of files, including inexpensive files - and I've sold some of them to professional woodworkers. I consider myself an amateur, which I don't know if that's technically correct if you sell things - but my capabilities are amateurish. However, every file I've used, including inexpensive indian files, has the markers both in snapped samples an combustion at the point of grind (literally like a little fireball that forms instead of just sparks) and the oft given advice in some circles that "all files are 1095" or "all files are case hardened and the center is mild steel" never made sense. For a high hardness chisel, the files are so good that I've considered maybe buying inexpensive large imported round or square files to forge. After forging or at least tapering them under the hammer if there's not much forging to do, and then working back through thermal cycles, they lose the brittle reputation that files have. The amount of chromium in the one cheap file is interesting, though, too. I'm sure it's intentional and wonder what the aim is - control of carbon in solution maybe, or a little bit more hardenability. Those file samples an the rail testing are gold to me ("rails are always 1084" is something I've also been told). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Weaver Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 On 3/16/2021 at 10:31 PM, Doug Lester said: NO, I have no intention of buying the second edition. That's almost half of what I will need to buy a new leg vice to replace the one that was stolen from me. Just to make sure, I'm going to give the local pawn shop a check to see if any of my stolen tools have made it there. As far as the book goes it would be nice to buy a copy if it fits into your budget so Dr. Verhoeven can get some money out of his work but $188 is outrageous. I feel sorry for the college kids who will be required to purchase it as a text. Doug If George Carlin were still alive, he'd do a 7 minute bit on college textbooks and Hal Leonard's hold on sheet music and tablature. I was a math major, but took a course in materials science as an elective. The professor (Peter Thrower) was so disgusted with the system that he published a paperback only text himself and sold it to students for $20 new. For mathematics, the text changes were once every two years or so just to nail the students, but the material doesn't change that quickly. Something discovered in 1940 is new for undergraduate mathematics. The books always took the opportunity to keep everything almost the same but prevent it from being close to the same page numbering so that they would tire you out. The backs of the books would have answers only to odd questions almost all the time so that you had to buy a supplement to get the answers to the even numbered exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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