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Stock removal with hand tools


Joël Mercier

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I've had the best luck thinning down by using an edm stone. I clamped the blade down and used the stone like a sanding block. Yes, it takes forever, especially when you think you're done, then you shift the light and find a low spot you missed. But, when you don't have power tools, it does the trick.

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1 minute ago, Zeb Camper said:

One could argue that since he differetially hardened (he talked about it, not sure he did) he could leave it a little on the harder side and not have to sharpen much. Just my one cent 

I initially planned to make a hamon till I read that 1084 has too much manganese and is a bit deep hardening...so I through hardened.

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Just now, Zeb Camper said:

He's saying you'll have more meat in the blade. If you took it down to nothing on your primary grind, then put a tiny 20° edge on it, it wouldn't hold up against a blade that was 1/16" before you put the edge on. Axe vs. razor blade.

Yeah I definitely did not plan to go below 1/32" for the primary bevel.

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I was just talking about edge retention thing he was talking about. 1/32" should be good. I will tell you now, I don't know best, and don't pretend to. Just saying what I would do. Lots of different people will have lots of opinions. You will eventually develop your own. I didn't mean to step on any toes when I said I wouldn't do a convex. I just simply wouldn't if it were me :)

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A convex edge would make it more difficult to polish the primary bevel. So I would save time here and lose more later...

I think I will stick with my original idea. 

I really appreciate both opinions though. Ty John and Zeb!

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After sanding for a while I realized the area near the ricasso became easier to sand and the surface had a different grain....d'oh! Then I tried a mill bastard file and it did not skate. 

Back to the forge I guess...I hope the edge will not crack.:blink:

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Oh, I re read this. I missed where you said "an area near the ricasso". Could be that you didnt wait for the intire blade to heat....That sucks dude :( you should probably watch for decalescense next time. Look for shadows to form as your heating it. You want the blade to be the same color as the area around the shadows (you can pull the blade out to look for them if the forge is too bright). Heat it as eveny as possible till the shadows are gone, then quench. Your thermocouple is a huge help, you can keep the temp so you can't overheat much. But you shouldn't rely on it completely. Another tip is to heat the ricasso- handle junction first, then move out towards your blade. Focuse on thick areas first, the other areas get hot on accedent usually .

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I tried to watch decalescence last time and didn't see crap. I tested the setup with my #1 knife first. I heated it several times and never saw the decalescence. Perhaps if I had Removed it from the forge like you say...

I will try again to see it but if I don't, I'll just let it soak for a while. I did read that longer soak times does not increase grain size, only higher temps do. I had almost zero decarb last time so it should be ok.

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You'll probably have to take it out of the forge to look at it every so often. I do it at night with the lights off makes it easier. It took me a looong while to HT accurately by using this method (mainly cuz I didn't know any better), but once you get the hang of it it works! Yo can also heat another piece of steel past critical, then take it out and watch it cool. You'll start to see the shadows, then you know what to look for. Hope this helps :D

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5 hours ago, Joël Mercier said:

I did read that longer soak times does not increase grain size, only higher temps do.

That isn't correct.  Grain growth is a function of temperature and time.  The growth rate is just faster the hotter you get it.  Grain growth starts happening at about 50% of the melting temperature (about 1360F for 1080).  There are of course a lot of variables that determine exactly how fast grain growth will be, including alloy, starting grain size, residual stresses, and more, but temperature is the biggest and easiest to measure and control.  It is basically a diffusion process, if that helps to understand the time element.  It takes time for atoms to shift from one grain to another (bigger grains "eat" smaller grains).  It also takes energy (i.e. heat).  The more energy there is, the faster an atom can move across a grain boundary.  

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2 minutes ago, Jerrod Miller said:

That isn't correct.  Grain growth is a function of temperature and time.  The growth rate is just faster the hotter you get it.  Grain growth starts happening at about 50% of the melting temperature (about 1360F for 1080).  There are of course a lot of variables that determine exactly how fast grain growth will be, including alloy, starting grain size, residual stresses, and more, but temperature is the biggest and easiest to measure and control.  It is basically a diffusion process, if that helps to understand the time element.  It takes time for atoms to shift from one grain to another (bigger grains "eat" smaller grains).  It also takes energy (i.e. heat).  The more energy there is, the faster an atom can move across a grain boundary.  

i did read a tread about 80crv2 in this forum that some folks left it soak for a very long time before quenching it and the grain size remained very small. May it be accountable to the vanadium content? 

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Vanadium carbides pin grain boundaries and reduce the grain growth rate substantially.  That is the primary reason for adding vanadium.  Also, at temperatures near/just above critical grain growth is pretty slow.  Just be aware that it is still not zero.  

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43 minutes ago, Jerrod Miller said:

Thank you for the kind words, but let's not over-do it here...

Too late :lol: I didn't mean to sound so blunt, or seriouse. I have this thread set to my email, and my email set to my phone, and I was forging some wrought for a tsuba, so I was trying to be swift. But Jerrod, you do know your stuff. Far smarter than the average bear. I was just trying to give Joel some fast advice to follow pretty much whatever you say, and count on it. I just wouldn't want him to go all gung-ho, before hearing your advice and ruining his blade he's worked so hard on. (I have bad service, so your response was'nt there yet when I sent mine)Joel, If I didn't know better it would be hard to believe this is your second knife ever. You really are on the right track :D

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I went to the shop this morning to attempt another quench. I did set the temp inside the pipe at 1550° this time. All the light were off and I finally managed to see the decalescence. My oil was at exactly 135° and I quenched the blade lightning fast. I'm pretty sure I nailed it this time B)

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