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Jerrod Miller

Mini-Anvils, Possibly For Sale

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Casting radii added, with 1" radius feet, slotted for a bolt.  

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Just to be clear: I have no intention of making this anvil.  If someone wants to place an order with my foundry, I will certainly make sure this model gets used, and I am very happy to help people understand the proper design of castings for ease of manufacturing (thus lowest cost).  I have a very nice anvil, I do not need another.  The Rhino guy is going to be in the plant in the near future.  I could talk to him about possibly adding this to his listings.  I plan on talking to him about a swage block already.  

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Thanks Jerrod, for all of the time you've put in on this.  Let us know what the Rhino guy  thinks.  I would love to own one of these, even though I'm pretty well "anviled".  What sort of swage blocks are going to talk to him about.  I'm looking for one with spoon and ladle holes.

 

Geoff

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8 minutes ago, Geoff Keyes said:

What sort of swage blocks are going to talk to him about. 

I'm going to start with "Hey, you should really offer a swage block, too!  I'll help design it for you."  Then see where it goes from there.  I'm thinking it should at least have some half rounds, a few Vs, maybe a couple Us, a few round dishes, at least 1 oval dish, a hardy hole (because why not?), and at least a couple round holes for punching/slotting.  

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The great thing about swage blocks is they can be plain old cast iron, so they should be cheaper.  Except for the patternmaking and coring, of course...

I like those little feet.  This was a fun exercise and I'd like to see it happen, but I doubt the bunch of us could underwrite production of a batch.  Say we had ten made, about what would that run not including shipping?

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

The great thing about swage blocks is they can be plain old cast iron, so they should be cheaper. 

They will perform better as hardened steel though.  Plus (at least for now), we don't make cast or ductile iron.  It actually costs $0.01/pound MORE for cast iron for us than for the tool steel we use for anvils.  The difference on why it is cheaper for cast iron castings is generally because less time is typically spent cleaning them up, and they don't get heat treated.  I would think our tool steel in the as-cast condition without clean-up (end user can do that as they see fit) would be quite nice for price.  

1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

Say we had ten made, about what would that run not including shipping?

I don't get involved in quoting (other than answering technical questions), but I would think $1500-2000 for the pattern, and about $375-425 per anvil.  Only the face would be surface ground.  You would have to polish the fuller and put an edge on the hot cut yourself.  Splitting the pattern cost over the first 10 anvils would make it $525-625 each.  Ordering 20 would make it $450-525 each.  Just a guess though.  

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3 hours ago, Geoff Keyes said:

Thanks Jerrod, for all of the time you've put in on this.  Let us know what the Rhino guy  thinks.  I would love to own one of these, even though I'm pretty well "anviled".  What sort of swage blocks are going to talk to him about.  I'm looking for one with spoon and ladle holes.

 

Geoff

https://southbend.craigslist.org/tls/d/blacksmith-tong-swage-block/6480987919.html

I found this not sure if it would fit in a flat rate box or not. Thought i would share it with you Geoff.

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Actually i have a flat rate box right here.  And it is saying 1519850804069-1745166185.jpg

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10 people doesn't seem too unrealistic, but may be a longshot. I'm on the fence myself. If I hadn't JUST bought an anvil I would be all for it. 

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Posted (edited)

I just bought an anvil and im all for it. But that just might be acquisititus talking.:wacko: also i might know someone who is not a forum member but would be all for it.

Edited by Jeremy Blohm

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I like the last pattern. Though there's no hurry. We might come up with more ideas in the meantime. 

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From what I've seen on forums, the amount of new people and the money they are spending, they know they need an anvil . There are many who are more likely to buy a new one than cruise around for an improvised and don't want to become well enough versed to trust buying an old one. Then there are those who could take any of those choices but the idea of a new cutler's anvil for a good price would attract them.

All in all for a full on company, with everything in place, I'm sure initial investment would be recovered quickly and if it really caught on it could become the standard.

All of this would be helped along greatly if they rushed me a sample so I could write up some reviews.:)

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Posted (edited)

I know we have been trying to keep this as cheap as possible but what would the added cost estimate be to add a dive tail on the fuller end? Im kinda curious to see what it would look like with one.

Edited by Jeremy Blohm

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13 hours ago, Jeremy Blohm said:

I know we have been trying to keep this as cheap as possible but what would the added cost estimate be to add a dive tail on the fuller end? Im kinda curious to see what it would look like with one.

Depends on how nice the finish needs to be and the tolerances.  If it could be as-cast, and not very tightly dimensions, it would add somewhere in the neighborhood of $750 to the pattern cost and $100 or so to the casting.  If it needed to be machined finished, I couldn't even think of how much more it would add to those costs, because I am not aware of a shop that would even do it.  We would send them the anvil with the as-cast dove tail and have them just do a final machining operation.  Assuming we could find anyone willing to do it.  Personally, I think a dovetail has no place on an anvil.  If you want a set-up that takes dovetailed tooling, it should be dedicated to that purpose.  It would be far cheaper to make a mild steel (maybe up to 1045, or 8630) block with the dovetail milled in.  

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I kinda figured it would add quite a bit to the final cost. And with the material this would be made of would make it really hard to mill. I think a dove tail would be awesome on this anvil make it a true cutlers anvil of a sort. Im sure some people think a hot cut has no purpose built into an anvil but we all seem to like it. It all comes down to personal preferance. It wouldnt make a differance to me either way especially if it puts it out of reach financially for the majority of the people that this would be for. 

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Posted (edited)

Also if i had another cutlers anvil i would want it to be made of a higher carbon steel same as an anvil. There is still a striking surface. It just can hold extra tooling to help with certain operations. Sure we can make different tooling for the hardie but if you find certain tools you use more often than others you can have them mounted in that position and still have the hardie hole open for other tools. All it does is help save time from having to change tools. We take time for granted in this craft now days. But say you are making 100 folders a day in Sheffield it helps save a lot if time.

Edited by Jeremy Blohm

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How about a single block with 3-5 hardy holes.  This is sort of a step backwards.  It goes back to my idea of a 2 piece system, a striking surface (say a 100 lb ish block) and a tooling face, also around 100 lbs.

Sorry to stir things up

 

Geoff

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1 minute ago, Geoff Keyes said:

How about a single block with 3-5 hardy holes.  This is sort of a step backwards.  It goes back to my idea of a 2 piece system, a striking surface (say a 100 lb ish block) and a tooling face, also around 100 lbs.

This would probably be cheapest made out of mild with the holes cut.  Or were you thinking of a hardened work face too?  

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I don't think it needs it.  With no tools in it, you could use it for a straightening surface.  It would be good for benders and such, and it would work much the same as a dovetail.

Just as a question, would it be cheaper (do you think) to have a couple of basic shanked tool blanks cast, or perhaps waterjet?  I'm thinking a shank with several different undifferentiated chunks on top.  A triangle that could be a fuller or a cutter, a large flat for a landing base, a "T" to make fullers out of, that sort of thing.

 

Geoff

 

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Exact shape/size, material choice, and quantity are going to dictate what is cheaper.  I think you would be looking for low alloy (4140, 8630, or similar).  If one wanted to order a couple thousand (over the course of a few years), then an investment casting may be a very good thing.  Tooling is really expensive (hence the need for a couple thousand in order to make it worth while).  Figure $5-6k for the die, then $10 per part for standard hardy tooling sizes, assuming you order batches in dozens.  Smaller quantities than that and you may be better off getting them cut out of plate (maybe AR500 or AR400?), or even cutting them out of foam and finding someone that can do lost foam casting.  

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I am interested in one of those anvils      properly advertised I think a "go fund me" type thing might make someone some dough    hint hint.   

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