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Throwing knife temper and material


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Hi there , first of let me introduce myself, I'm a newbie in blade smithing black smithing and anything that involves making pointy sharp things lol..

 I really like the look. Of the old mountain man style throwing knives and was wondering if you could help me out on what steel and temper would be best .. 

i carnt really get hold of any 1095 however I can get hold 01 tool steel and 80crv2 very easily. Wold this be ok to make a throwing knife from IMG_0372.PNG

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Of the steels you mention, the only one I would use for a thrower would be 80crv2.  I would not suggest 1095 or o1 simply because the tempering temperature would be higher than the average oven can reach... Anything with .8% carbon down to .4% would work, I know one fellow who made a set out of HC railroad spikes and that might just be the best thing to use them for as far as knives go.

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I make throwers and I make mine out of mild steel, though I agree with the above, it might be the best use of RR spikes.  I prefer mild or something like it for several reasons.  First, you don't want them hard because you don't want them to chip or spall pieces off.  You could do this by drawing them way back, but why bother.  Second, if you hit with a lot of torque a hard blade could break, a soft one might bend, but a couple of whacks with a rock puts them true again.  Third, there isn't much point in putting a lot of work into them, since you are going to throw them and you are going to lose them.

If you're looking for forging practice, by all means forge them, but forge them out of mild.

Just my .02

Geoff

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Cheers for the help guys . 

Plan of action is try to forge one out of mild steel 

and make one out of 80crv2 using stock removal technique

 

next questions lol what would be best temper 

 

cheers again 

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I agree with Geoff on these.  Using high carbon steel on a thrower is wasting time and money.  If you insist on using 80CrV2, don't harden it to begin with.  Or if you do harden it, temper it as hot as your oven can go, or use a torch to draw it back past full blue into gray.  You want a thrower to bend rather than break, and especially to stay bent rather than spring back at you or anyone else standing around you.

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Another choice is 1045, otherwise known as PGS or shafting steel. Cheap and tough.

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Just now, Alan Longmire said:

I agree with Geoff on these.  Using high carbon steel on a thrower is wasting time and money.  If you insist on using 80CrV2, don't harden it to begin with.  Or if you do harden it, temper it as hot as your oven can go, or use a torch to draw it back past full blue into gray.  You want a thrower to bend rather than break, and especially to stay bent rather than spring back at you or anyone else standing around you.

I don't mind spending a big of money but I can get a piece of 80crv2 big enough for what I'm after for free so it won't cost me nothing really, also this isn't going to be used just wandering around the woods with I want to use it in competition so I won't loose it..when I read the discription on the mountain man throwers also the Jeff white thrower they say they are made from modified 1045 with a rockwell hardness of 55 and a lifetime guarante not to break ...that's what I was trying to make but with my limited knowledge I though 55 would be to high 

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The only tempering chart I've been able to find for 80crv2 (https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-bladesteelC-1080+.htm) shows you would need to temper at 575° to reach 55HRC, which is a bit hotter than my kitchen oven will go (I do have a drum forge/furnace that will stabilize at that temp with the burner barely sputtering, but that doesn't help you)... I should have checked that before I commented earlier.  That said, maybe a different steel would be better for this purpose.

I personally like a throwing knife to be able to function as a knife (otherwise it's not really a knife, is it?), even though it is a little softer I wouldn't want it dead soft... Again, personal preference here, I'd want a solid spring temper, say 48 to 55HRC, maybe even a little harder with the right steel.  I can understand why others might feel differently however.

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Since I am awaiting the arrival of my first pieces of 80crv2 I am just taking a SWAG here but I would think that, for purposes of a throwing knife it would be possible to acheive a useful temper by the old-fashioned and primative, to some, method of the drawback with a basic propane torch . Heat to blue, polish off and repeat a couple of times. 80crv2 being a relatively "basic" steel. After all, as opinions here prove, there is no one common idea of "perfect" temper. I like mine to still be able to have some knife function but as long as it is between "fragile" and "easily bent" it will probably suit me.

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I try not to think of them as "knives" but more of a "metal throwing stick".  I suppose that it's possible (given that humans are humans, and time is long) that some person, at some time, used a perfectly good knife as a thrown weapon, but it's got to pretty rare. 

First, it's like a single shot pistol, except that with a pistol you could turn the thing around and use it as a club. 

Second, if it's your primary weapon, or even a backup, why on earth would you throw it away?

Third, despite what you see in the movies, you'd have to be the unluckiest man in the world to take a serious, debilitating wound from a thrown knife.  OTOH, my throwers weigh nearly a pound.  If I bounce one of those off your head, that's gonna leave a mark.

If you want to throw stuff, learn to throw a rock accurately (or the biggest machine nut you can find).  Carry a pocket full of rocks, and one good knife.

I'm envisioning a D&D character armed with a bag of rocks and a nice heavy stick.  Stand in the back, pitch rocks at the bad guys, go hand to hand with the stick, run when you have to.

 

Just my thoughts on the subject

Geoff

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Just now, Geoff Keyes said:

I try not to think of them as "knives" but more of a "metal throwing stick".  I suppose that it's possible (given that humans are humans, and time is long) that some person, at some time, used a perfectly good knife as a thrown weapon, but it's got to pretty rare. 

First, it's like a single shot pistol, except that with a pistol you could turn the thing around and use it as a club. 

Second, if it's your primary weapon, or even a backup, why on earth would you throw it away?

Third, despite what you see in the movies, you'd have to be the unluckiest man in the world to take a serious, debilitating wound from a thrown knife.  OTOH, my throwers weigh nearly a pound.  If I bounce one of those off your head, that's gonna leave a mark.

If you want to throw stuff, learn to throw a rock accurately (or the biggest machine nut you can find).  Carry a pocket full of rocks, and one good knife.

I'm envisioning a D&D character armed with a bag of rocks and a nice heavy stick.  Stand in the back, pitch rocks at the bad guys, go hand to hand with the stick, run when you have to.

 

Just my thoughts on the subject

Geoff

lol Geoff I'd look pretty funny turning up at a knife competition and start throwing bolts nuts stone phone etc etc lol 

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I had a friend who went to a high end airgun shoot, armed with a Sheridan pump gun with a peep sight.  He hit ten out of ten silhouettes and had the fastest time.  $100 gun, $50 sight, and some skill, against a bunch of $2k springers.  Go to that throwing competition and throw a sharpened lug wrench.  So long as it sticks, what else matters?

If you actually had to cut something, that's different, but are you going to throw that custom made M2 chopper?  No you are not!

 

Geoff

 

Geoff 

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Just now, Geoff Keyes said:

I have some I could finish up.  $20 each or 3 for $50.  Mild steel, 45 degree edge grind.  You can do what you want for handles.

 

Geoff

I'm a Limey .shipping wouldn't make it worth while 

 

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If there hadn't been an intetest from that part of the world there might not have been a Hudson's Bay Company in the first place. It's a history we share across the pond- despite the barrier of a common language.

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