MikeSchultz Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I was told 154cm is not a good steel for a starter. I’m going to do stock removal. What Steel should i Work with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël Mercier Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 154 is abrasion resistant so be ready to spend a lot of belts and, unless you have a Kiln, you will have to send it for heat treatment. Simple carbon steals are ideal for beginners like you and me. 1075/80/84, 5160 and perhaps 80crv2 my first knife was made of 1084 and i must say i am impressed by the quality of the edge i got out of it. Edited November 2, 2017 by Joël Mercier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I have to agree. The 10xx series, 1070-1084, but not 1095, including 80CrV2 are the steels to start with. Some stay with them (80CrV2 notably) with great results. None of them are expensive to buy in 1-4 foot sections to start. They will be waaaay cheaper in belts, or wear and tear on equipment and operator in the long run. They will allow you to work on technique rather than testing determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEzell Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1080 and 1084 are the easiest steels to heat-treat, and are also easy to forge, sand, and polish. They also make for a good knife. If you're going to be sending them out for heat-treating you have a lot more options... 1 George Ezell, bladesmith" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."Buffonview some of my work RelicForge on facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Mulkey Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Mike, We need a little more info to really help you correctly. One--Are you doing your own H/T? Two--If so what equipment do you have? 1 Gary ABS,CKCA,ABKA,KGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua States Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 On 11/2/2017 at 1:32 PM, Gary Mulkey said: Mike, We need a little more info to really help you correctly. One--Are you doing your own H/T? Two--If so what equipment do you have? This is the question to answer because you already said you are doing stock removal. Being that is the basis, the type of steel you use really doesn't matter as long as your wallet can handle it. You will see a lot of recommendations for the simpler steels (10xx, 5160, etc.) because from a forging standpoint, they are more "forgiving" than more complex alloys. However, you are basically cutting and grinding (or filing) to shape, so it really doesn't matter a whole lot. Some of the more complex alloys will take more effort, but the real limiting factor is in your Heat Treat (HT) equipment or methods. Simple steels can be effectively heat treated with simple methods. When I started out, I was a stock removal maker and I purchased the following steel types: 1084, 5160, and O-1 just to give them a try and see what I liked. I made a couple of knives from each and did the HT in my forge (hardening) and electric kitchen oven (tempering). I very rapidly migrated to O-1 and dropped 5160 altogether for personal taste reasons more than anything else. I would suggest that you do something similar and see which steels you like most. So, what is the plan for HT? “So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.” The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing. Josh http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg J.States Bladesmith | Facebook https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71 https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Forsman Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 I like 5160 and 80crv2. Ive had good success edge hardening both with a torch and quenching in used motor oil. Thats about as crude as it gets so if its possible to have good succes with that method then anyone can do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 One thing to bear in mind about the steel choice vs heat treating decision is the "potential v actual results" scale asit relates to different steels and the end product. That is to say that, while according to it's reputation a steel like, say, D-2, can do some things and has desireable properties those things only become evident when (given proper design and execution) the steel is properly heat treated to maximize its potential. Using the D-2 example I know from experience that if not brought to potential you end up with so-so "sharpness" and edge holding but almost as much work sharpening as fully realized D-2. A simple 1080 fully realized will make a better knife, all other things being equal, than a "complex" steel that doesn't get lifted to its potential. I say this from having tried to use complex carbon steels with "simple" heat treating equipment ( forge, toaster oven) and doing the same with steels requiring only simple methods. Being honest with myself, yes, I could say " this knife is made from D-2 or 52100 and it is well known as a superior knife steel." Could I honestly say " and it is a better knife than the identical one I made from 1080" ? Not honestly I (on my individual scale) couldn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSchultz Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 Well I have a hook up on heat treating from a machinist. I and a buddy are going to build a gas fired forge but have not yet. So send out will be my method at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSchultz Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 Also why not 1095? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 1095 is, like the rest of the 10xx family, easy to forge and is probably the most common carbon steel in production knives but poses problems for individuals with simple equipment. If you are trying to get what it is capable of you have to be aware that it has a small "sweet spot" for hardening with optimal results IIRC 1475-1500 and it requires a good soak time, within that range, which may be difficult to precisely do with just a forge. It also needs to be quenched in a medium that brings it down very fast but, the double edged sword to that is too fast and it cracks. So, for optimal results, in both hardening temp and quenching you have to be precise. Like Vince Lombardi said about the forward pass in football, "three things can happen and two of them are bad" It's a wonderful steel IF you can do it right. if not right the results are, at best, slightly lower than other steels that are easier to do right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick P Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Two things I think are worth mentioning. both are safety related. If you are doing doing stock removal especially with stainless steels be sure to use an appropriate respirator, they off gas some carcinogens when ground or welded. Also I was specifically warned by another smith/engineering tech that used motor oil is also full of hazardous materials, new would be fine but not used. Just felt it should be mentioned have fun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël Mercier Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Agreed. Canola oil is cheap, safer and also faster than motor oil. It's a no brainer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warner Smith Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 On 11/2/2017 at 2:57 PM, Joël Mercier said: 154 is abrasion resistant so be ready to spend a lot of belts and, unless you have a Kiln, you will have to send it for heat treatment. Simple carbon steals are ideal for beginners like you and me. 1075/80/84, 5160 and perhaps 80crv2 my first knife was made of 1084 and i must say i am impressed by the quality of the edge i got out of it. EXACTLY what I want to order, Joel. 1080 or 1084. Local supplier looks like they have 1075, which may be good enough..... Warner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël Mercier Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 38 minutes ago, Warner Smith said: EXACTLY what I want to order, Joel. 1080 or 1084. Local supplier looks like they have 1075, which may be good enough..... Warner If you want to try differential hardening, 1075 will give you a better hamon. Otherwise, 1084 is nice and easy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warner Smith Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Joël Mercier said: If you want to try differential hardening, 1075 will give you a better hamon. Otherwise, 1084 is nice and easy I'm checking with some other local suppliers. One benefit of living so close to Chiraq (Chicago) is there are lots of local suppliers, so shipping isn't really necessary..... Warner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrod Miller Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Derrick P said: If you are doing doing stock removal especially with stainless steels be sure to use an appropriate respirator, they off gas some carcinogens when ground or welded. Only concern would be with electric arc welding, and then you would need to be doing a considerable amount. No standard practice in a bladesmith shop will get you anything to worry about coming out of the steels we work with. The dust from handle materials and the abrasives themselves are a whole separate issue though (toxins in woods and silica from sanding belts being the big ones). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 And the problem with new motor oil is that it has detergents in it which are hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water. Which means while it starts out as a fairly slow oil, over time it will get unpredictably faster. Canola, straight mineral oil, or actual quench oil, in order of expense from very low to fairly high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Bulk stores are your friends 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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