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Jon Cook

a newbie's beluga

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Bit of a shot in the dark, but might any of you fine gentlemen have insight into the proportions of a traditional Barlow folder? For some reason, I've become somewhat enamored with the shape,  and I'd like to try realizing it in a fixed blade design. I've tried drawing it out a couple times, but it has consistently eluded me, and I've ended up with a couple small hunters and a pocket kukri on paper instead.

I suspect the answer has something to do with math. I know, that way lies madness, but it made fun of my leg. I like that leg. I would push myself to the limit as it approaches zero for that leg. So bring on the math, boys. Or, you know, any information y'all would be willing to share. I'd be grateful for any push in the right direction. 

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Ask Google and you shall receive!! LOL

image.jpeg As best I can tell  in the pic it is about 3 1/2", which is probably pretty close for a 3" blade!!

 

However if you are going to use the design of the handle on a fixed blade, make it your own. You can stretch or shrink as needed to fit the hand! As you can see by this second  pic not all Barlows were the same length! Image result for dimensions of a traditional Barlow folder Have fun with it and say the handle was Barlow inspired, and make as long or as wide as you want!

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@C Craft I appreciate the reply.  One reason I'm planning this is the ability to scale the pattern to my slightly oversized hands. That, and as an immigrant to the digital age, remix is in the blood.

This is close to what I'm after. Modern variations like this one seem to be a bit sleeker than their forerunners, and I much prefer the English Patten Barlow blade to the American both for my skill level and aesthetics.

Either way, it appears that, should you disassemble the knife, the blade would fit, more or less, in the handle's silhouette. With this shape, and a straight spine through the handle when open, the edge side seems to form a very shallow V.

Further, from my research, it appears that there's a goldilocks zone for blade/ handle ratios on folding knives somewhere between .7 and .85 (I may have th b/h reversed).

You'd think knowing all of that would be enough, yet it still eludes me. Best as I can figure, I'm missing the ratio of the slope of the handle, or the angle of the V, and without one in hand, I'm stuck as to how to find it. 

KLC08874.jpg

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This is a place where making a mockup helps.  Micarta for the handles and AL for the blade and a screw for the pivot (you can tap micarta).  That way you can try a bunch of blade styles, lengths and proportions.

 

Geoff

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20 hours ago, Geoff Keyes said:

(you can tap micarta).

I never would have thought to try, thanks again Geoff for some very useful information.

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Seems like the blade and handle have the same taper,  and the back is straight, so the only variables are the degree of taper, and the difference in depth between the bolster and blade. Make a template of the handle shape you want, and mirror it at the pivot, and design the blade within the mirrored image, keeping the taper... 

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I recently completed a sketch/pattern of an old knife with the same type of handle but a different blade shape. I did it on graph paper from an old photo. I was lucky in that I had the width at the bolster I could do a rough extrapolation from there. At any rate I found that there was, in my case, a relationship between the centerline of the knife, from tip to butt and the downward pitch from the wider butt to the front of the bolster. Continued througn both top and bottom of butt would have met at the point.

It was obvious on graph paper and probably a fluke but I intend to play around with it some more

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The angle on the first image C Craft posted is about 172 degrees, looking to be centered at the plunge line.  

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:55 PM, Jon Cook said:

For some reason, I've become somewhat enamored with the shape,  and I'd like to try realizing it in a fixed blade design.

Are you trying to make this a fixed blade in miniature (pocket knife) size, or are you trying to take the basic shape/proportions and enlarge them into a sheath knife size?

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Geoff and Jake, working on the components separately like y'all suggested seems to be my best bet right now. My drafting skills are pretty limited, and I think that's where I'm getting tripped up.

Vern, if the mirror trick doesn't work, my next attempt will be a high tech version of your method. Yay for counting pixels.

Jerrod, bless you for figuring that out. that may be exactly what I need.

Joshua, sheath-sized. I've been plagued by lilliputian coat sleeves and web fingered gloves since high school, so I figured I'd make it on the big side. This pattern should have the added benefit of conoting itchy sweaters and pipe tobacco to wary lookers-on.

All: thank you for your input. Sorry it took so long to reply. This week is the start of my yearly chaos season, and it's looking like a bumper crop so far. 

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BTW, I used ImageJ, a free image software package that lets you do all kinds of measurement things (including add scale bars and such).  

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On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 2:12 PM, Jon Cook said:

Joshua, sheath-sized. I've been plagued by lilliputian coat sleeves and web fingered gloves since high school, so I figured I'd make it on the big side. This pattern should have the added benefit of conoting itchy sweaters and pipe tobacco to wary lookers-on.

But still a folder, or fixed blade? If it's a folder, I can walk you through the process of drawing the blade out, complete with pivot point, and drawing/building the handle to fit. I guess you could use the same method to make a fixed blade, so here goes:

Get the blade drawn out on a piece of paper and include where the pivot point should be. Make a photocopy and cut out the blade from the copy. Now pin the cutout blade over the original and push a pin through the pivot hole so you can spin the cutout around. Rotate the blade until it is almost, but not quite, opposite from where it started. This should be in the position where you would want the blade in a closed position for a folder. If you have a folding knife of any kind, lay it on the table next to your drawing to get an idea of how far the blade travels to the closed position.

Sketch a line around the outside and remove the cutout blade pattern. You should now have a drawing of the blade in both the open and closed positions. Now draw a handle shape around the area so it covers the closed blade edge, the entire pivot area of the open blade, the point of the closed blade, and leaves enough room along the spine to add a spring/lever. 

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1 hour ago, Jon Cook said:

@Joshua States I feel silly for omitting that critical information. I'm going for a fixed blade.

You can still use the folder method to get the handle to blade proportions right. If you need a visual, I can provide something to show the process.

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5 hours ago, Jon Cook said:

@Joshua States I feel silly for omitting that critical information. I'm going for a fixed blade.

You didn't. It was in the second sentence of your first post.

(I just hate to see people doubt themselves for no reason:blink:)

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@Joshua States I appreciate the offer. I'm gonna give it a shot next time I have the chance to draw, and we'll see if I can get y'all's advice to bear fruit.

@Vern Wimmer I have atrocious conversational continuity, so I'm used to recapping. 

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Alright, fellas, I finally managed a (very) rough draft.  The shop gnomes made off with my protractor and french curves, so it's mostly free hand and algebra.

PSX_20171206_150828.jpg

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Just to muddy the water I thought I'd show a Mora I have that is something along the same line. You could play around with the image. I find it easier sometimes to add and subtract from an existing design.

20171206_133352.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

Just to muddy the water I thought I'd show a Mora I have that is something along the same line. You could play around with the image. I find it easier sometimes to add and subtract from an existing design.

20171206_133352.jpg

I was actually thinking version one looked like a cross between a Barlow and a Mora. To my eyes it's beefy, and might be happy on camp duty.

I couldn't figure out how to convey it on paper, but i want to give it a "hidden" palm swell as well. In profile it would have the teardrop handle shape,  and pregnant goldfish from the top. 

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"Mission Control, we have subtle palm swell"

20171206_140642.jpg

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55 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

"Mission Control, we have subtle palm swell"

20171206_140642.jpg

Well, sure, if you want to do it the easy way :P

But, yeah,  that's the basic idea.  

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