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Trouble getting blade hot enough during HT


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Even if i only help chris it will be worth it! I will post pictures here and im going to start a new topic under beginners place so it will be easier to find for other beginners or simply someone who

+1 Venturi burner is easy and relatively cheap to build. Look in the tool making section. I built mine on that design.

He can make a mini venturi like Jeremy said. With 1/2" pipe and smaller mig tip...

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You could build your own for half that amount if you have any welding skills.  www.hightemptools.com and Wayne Coe here on the forum have everything you need, and that firebrick in that forge is not one of those items.  A split (half-thickness) brick let into the floor is good for wear resistance, but takes a lot longer to heat up than just wool and refractory skim coat.  Which that forge does not have.  Uncoated wool when fired gets really brittle and the fibers break off and float around where you breathe, which over time causes the equivalent of asbestosis/mesothelioma.  All you need is a burner (burners threads a plenty here, or buy the $45 kit from hightemptools), a shell of some sort (paint can, propane bottle, mailbox, etc) enough wool to line it (one or two inches, your choice) and a refractory cement topcoat like Satanite, Mizzou, Cast-o-Lite, etc. about 1/4 to 1/2" thick plus a way to mount the burner and some way to block off the openings a bit (thin firebricks on angle iron tracks are good for this) and you're good to go.  

I'm just talking about the one on eBay, I'm not on facebook to see the other one.  

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But the wife wouldn't know what to buy for christmas. 

The ebay one looks good other than not having a coating on it. If she goes this way make sure you get some refractory to put a coating on the wool.

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The texas forge and grinder looks like the way to go. Set up and ready to run the wool is already coated with refractory and as for a hose and regulator...i have been getting welding gauges for under $10 on an online auction. 

Edited by Jeremy Blohm
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I agree with both Alan and Jeremy because they are both right! ( In my upper simian opinion)

I don't FB so I am going off the Fleabay.

You can build one for less if you can weld and, there are members here that have about everything you need whether you build or buy the burner. 

Yes, that Ebay one is one of the better ones in that price level and grade. It is far better than some of the foccacatta contraptions I have seen being passed of on Ebay as "forges"   but bearing a strong resemblence to my failed Jr High science project "The energy saving "Flash" hot dog cooker.

Both Alan and Jeremy nailed the need to coat the interior with refractory coating.

You can build a better forge than that one if you are willing to put in the work to scrounge the parts and time to assemble. I do have a small rant about people with no experience building their own burner, especially when they can be purchased complete.

There is also the "wife wants to buy it for me" factor which might outweigh a lot of other factors.

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I took a look at the Texas forge offering.

It does not look bad for the price. I like the way the body and internals are done. Burner is simple but that's not a bad thing. If you could put the burner from Ebay on the forge from Facebook .... but really for the basic forge they will all have "this and that" that will appeal, or un appeal , to different folks. 

PS , don't tell anyone, but, when I switched from charcoal to gas...I had 99% of the materials and the experience to build my first gas forge just "the way I wanted" but I found a company that was just beyond start up level, with a good rep, and scraped my pockets to buy their cheapest model. I never regretted it. An hour after it was out of the box I was beating on hot steel and grinning.

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Thanks everyone for all of the responses.  This has been a wealth of information.  I am going to go with the Ebay one and get some refractory cement and coat the inside with it. 

I would love to build the forge and burner and learn how it all works I just don't have a lot of free time.  The time I do have I would rather make knives.  I am working on knife number 3 right now and they are getting better each time.  One day I will be able to make something worth carrying. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Chris S said:

Thanks everyone for all of the responses.  This has been a wealth of information.  I am going to go with the Ebay one and get some refractory cement and coat the inside with it. 

I would love to build the forge and burner and learn how it all works I just don't have a lot of free time.  The time I do have I would rather make knives.  I am working on knife number 3 right now and they are getting better each time.  One day I will be able to make something worth carrying. 

 

 

I was going  buy the same one from ebay when i wanted to switch from coal to gas but there was an outdoor wood burner manufacturer that hen out of business a couple years ago and there was a pallet of ceramic wool and a pallet of fire brick i won at the auction for $80 so now i can build a forge for around $30-$40.;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I seem to have the same problem as alot of beginner bladesmiths with not getting my steel hot enough. I have a two burner majestic forge with a 100lbs propane tank. I can get the steel to a bright orange but that seems to be as hot as I can get it. I have attempted to forge weld steel cable but I cannot get it to a yellow or white hot. Any ideas or advice.

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35 minutes ago, mark richardson said:

I seem to have the same problem as alot of beginner bladesmiths with not getting my steel hot enough. I have a two burner majestic forge with a 100lbs propane tank. I can get the steel to a bright orange but that seems to be as hot as I can get it. I have attempted to forge weld steel cable but I cannot get it to a yellow or white hot. Any ideas or advice.

Sadly I for one am not surprised when I hear of someone having trouble with one of those forges. The design is that of a farrier's forge brought here today in a wayback machine. They are an inefficient design heat wise and don't take advantage of very much of the great amount that has been learned since roughly 1980.

I would check both burner controls out, if you have the economy model then the burner control.

What psi are you trying to run at?

Just by comparison my cylinderical forge is about the same overall size and has no trouble getting to welding heat with a single, last generation burner. Maybe not as fast as the same model with 2 burners, but OK by me.

Now the better news is that IMO, if someone already has one of those and its performance stinks, it is possible to DIY upgrade it by changing a few things with some insulating materials and the time it takes. I am surprised that no one has done it and posted a thread, that got pinned, on how to do it.

 

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2 hours ago, mark richardson said:

I seem to have the same problem as alot of beginner bladesmiths with not getting my steel hot enough. I have a two burner majestic forge with a 100lbs propane tank. I can get the steel to a bright orange but that seems to be as hot as I can get it. I have attempted to forge weld steel cable but I cannot get it to a yellow or white hot. Any ideas or advice.

https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/36381-burner-placement/

Check this out

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/12/2017 at 6:09 PM, Chris S said:

Thanks everyone for all of the responses.  This has been a wealth of information.  I am going to go with the Ebay one and get some refractory cement and coat the inside with it. 

I would love to build the forge and burner and learn how it all works I just don't have a lot of free time.  The time I do have I would rather make knives.  I am working on knife number 3 right now and they are getting better each time.  One day I will be able to make something worth carrying. 

 

 

 

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So it took me a while to get around to doing this and instead of building a burner I just made it even more simple for anyone to be able to do this. All I did was bought a turkey fryer off of an online auction for $12 with the intentions of using it for a tempering oven that I am going to build along with the thousand other things I have going. But I realised that the burner was a venturi 20180112_113147.jpg

So all I did was cut the end off 20180112_113254.jpg

Stuck it in the forge.20180112_113545.jpg

And bam it fired right up and ran as smooth as silk!!!20180112_113712.jpg

And achieved quenching temp in 4 minutes from the time I fired it up to this pucture.20180112_114021.jpg

this is what the turkey fryer looked like

20180112_114224.jpg

Edited by Jeremy Blohm
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There is an obvious hot spot but I didn't move the blade back and forth like I would have if I was going to actually quench the blade.

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The regulator is a 5psi and I thought I had it running at max but I just realized that because the regulator has not been used In a while there was a tough spot in the knob and it was only running about half throttle.20180112_114048.jpg

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On 12/4/2017 at 7:19 PM, Vern Wimmer said:

Excellent!!!  You'll be a hero to young boys and girls across America ! (Or at least a couple of people around here)

 

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3 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

Good deal.

I posted a video in the very simple beginners forge posted in the beginners subforum 

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