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Philip Patton

Tempering ovens, heat treat foils, anti-scale powders...

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So heat treating in tempering ovens is something I am learning about...

What do you all do to avoid scale and carbon loss?

And where do you get your heat treating foil or anti-scale powers/pastes?

Also, do have any other fun things ideas one can do with tempering ovens?


~Philip

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Are you referring to the high temp ovens used for hardening? 

For "tempering" I use a thrift store toaster oven. 

For scale prevention I am partial to the ATP641 sold through Brownells.

 

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4 hours ago, Philip Patton said:

So heat treating in tempering ovens is something I am learning about...

What do you all do to avoid scale and carbon loss?

And where do you get your heat treating foil or anti-scale powers/pastes?

Also, do have any other fun things ideas one can do with tempering ovens?


~Philip

I am going to make the same assumption that Vern did above and assume you meant heat treating oven. 

I wrap knives in stainless foil for scale prevention, but that is only when normalizing.  The last heat is without foil and the knife is not in the forge for very long unless it is a tool steel.  I got my foil from Jantz.

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I don't use any anti scale/decarb measures. I Just heat treat a little thicker and grind off the excess.

Sometimes  for small delicate parts I rub them with bar soap and it helps a bit against oxidation 

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the Atp anti scale is a great product, put it on and let it dry before it goes into the oven and it will last through normalisations and heat for quench.

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One advantage to ATP is that it is cheap. A container from Brownells is $15. Properly applied it will do (at least) 50-100 blades depending on size. It is worth it for the wear on belts and the time it saves in grinding off the scale. You can go to a pretty high finish on the soft steel befire coating and not have to go backwards to re grind the scale. In business terms "it doesn't "pay for itself" , it makes a profit"

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16 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said:

Are you referring to the high temp ovens used for hardening? 

For "tempering" I use a thrift store toaster oven. 

For scale prevention I am partial to the ATP641 sold through Brownells.

 

Can this or any of them be applied to a blade that has been clayed up for a hamon?  I dont know if its a spray...a powder ect.

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It's a powder.  Mix it with alcohol and apply a thin coat and let dry, then do the clay.  It's easier than doing it the other way around.

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Yep should have put heat treat oven in the title...

I will have to try that ATP stuff out. What kind of alcohol do you mix it with, and I am guessing that you mix it fairly thin?

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OK, so I went to the Brownells site and now I got a question. What is the difference between the two of these products??

Has anyone tried both of them and if so what do you think about one Vs the other????

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/heat-treating-accessories/anti-scale-coating-prod23076.aspx

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/heat-treating-accessories/non-scaling-compound-sku083015100-1122-4011.aspx?rrec=true

 

 

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34 minutes ago, C Craft said:

OK, so I went to the Brownells site and now I got a question. What is the difference between the two of these products??

Has anyone tried both of them and if so what do you think about one Vs the other????

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/heat-treating-accessories/anti-scale-coating-prod23076.aspx

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/heat-treating-accessories/non-scaling-compound-sku083015100-1122-4011.aspx?rrec=true

 

 

Cliff,

 

The first is a water base paste.  The second is a powder.  I've used both but prefer the paste for ease of  use.

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Paste. A small brush, no mixing goes on quick if you wipe the blade with acetone and wear cotton gloves.

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I have the powder, and it says mix with denatured alcohol to form a paste, then brush on.  The blade must be degreased or it won't stick.

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

I have the powder, and it says mix with denatured alcohol to form a paste, then brush on.  The blade must be degreased or it won't stick.

When I used it I would heat the blade to 500 degrees and place in a box with the powder and shake until  the blade was coated (the powder melts at that temp).

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Yeah, it says you can do that too, but I found it kind of messy and a bit wasteful. Handy if any pops off while you're heating in up, though.  Just sprinkle on a little more.

One warning: when it says do not heat above 1600 degrees, they're dead serious.  It will eat into the steel and leave pitting and has to be ground off.

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15 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

Yeah, it says you can do that too, but I found it kind of messy and a bit wasteful. Handy if any pops off while you're heating in up, though.  Just sprinkle on a little more.

One warning: when it says do not heat above 1600 degrees, they're dead serious.  It will eat into the steel and leave pitting and has to be ground off.

That along with other reasons is  why I went to using the  ATP-641.

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Thanks Gary, for explaining, and Alan for highlighting the difference!! I think I will try the ATP-641!!

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I used to use the ATP paste, but I've found that I don't really get scale when I heat treat using my EvenHeat oven. The blade turns black, but no scale. This is with 1084 and 5160. Not sure about other steels though. 

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