P Jones Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Beginner's Place seemed appropriate for this. So I'm in the process of planning out my next forge. I'm not completely new at this game, I'm already made a small charcoal forge (which ended up failing) and a venturi gas forge (which works). All my tool and equipment before were mostly cheap tools or improvised, so now I'm slowly working at buying/making proper bladesmithing gear. The next on the chopping block is my forge. Now my other isn't bad, it's actually a pretty nice little forge, was even able to do some forge welding with it. The problem is that it isn't the most well-put together forges and internal temp isn't quite as high as I would like. I don't have anything put together yet, just some concepts drawn up on Paint. Beware, the photos are pretty high quality. The body I'm making is from a steel tube I got from a buddy. A little overkill but its free. The rest of the dimensions are in the pictures and the burners I'm planning on making forced air this time around. I feel like I've got the main concepts down, but there are some questions I have that I can't seem to find after hours of searching. -1 burner should be enough in this case to maintain forge welding temperatures, correct? I saw somewhere to make it one burner for every 350 cu/in, this one comes up to 340 (3" radius & 12 long chamber)(the image above in incorrect with the volume, that was before I planned on trimming the size of the tube down) -Do I need the flair at the end of the burner for a forced air burner? Is so what size would I need from a 1" pipe or does it not really matter? -for the fuel jet I was planning on using a brass plug with a hole drilled in it. It's a 1" pipe, and I've seen people mention using a #57 drill bit for the hole. Does this sound right? If not what size should work for this size burner? So yeah. If anyone's willing to give me some direction with this, help's always appreciated. Also if anyone sees anything wrong with the design and is willing to point it out, I'm not the kind to disregard bad advice. And before I forget, I intend on using this forge mainly for making small and large knives and to do some forge welding, therefor its important for me to make a forge than can hold forge forge welding temps. EDIT: Yeah, so as it turns out Photobucket charges users a premium for third party hosting. Anyone looking to share their images just use cubeupload instead. Edited January 27, 2018 by P Jones Fix bad photo URL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Keyes Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 If this is a blown burner (fan driven, not venturi) then you don't want the the injector nipple. There is a pinned thread on blown burners (which I wrote, no applause please) that has all of the info you need on the subject, or most of it, anyway. You need a small hole injector to create the venturi effect, plus some high pressure on the gas line. A blown burner need volume but not pressure to run correctly, I run mine at about 1 psi through a 1/4 " needle valve. Geoff "The worst day smithing is better than the best day working for someone else." I said that. If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly. - - -G. K. Chesterton So, just for the record: the fact that it does work still should not be taken as definitive proof that you are not crazy. Grant Sarver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Welcome aboard! Two things jump out at me: forced air does not require a small gas orifice, and the brick on the floor isn't really necessary. Read the pinned thread "blown burners: the care and feeding" down in the Tools and Toolmaking forum here. Most people just dump the gas in with a 1/8" line and needle valve. The 350 cubic inch rule and flares are for venturi burners only, although a flare won't hurt a blown burner either. Instead of the brick use a flux resisting castable or rammable refractory over the wool. Something like Mizzou or Cast-o-Lite. Topcoat that with an IR reflective coating like ITC-100, Plistix, or Metricote, and with enough blower you will easily melt steel, not just weld it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Jones Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Thank you for the quick replies. Good advice and the exact kind of information I was hoping for. I checked the forum one more time to see if there was already info pinned before posting, I didn't think to check outside the Beginner's Place and the forging forums. I'll be reading over that post a few times and make adjustments to my design. Okay, that's one thing most material I've watched/read never really mentioned about the gas orifice. I figured the burner still needed it just because it was used in the venturi burner. Honestly it was the biggest question I had. The firebrick is meant to be used as a surface to set the metal down on while the forge is in use, or do you think that could negatively impact the performance somehow? But yeah I didn't mention it in any of the diagrams, I planned on using some sort of refractory to coat the wool, however I've never considered using some type of reflective coating, so I'll definitely take that into account here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Blohm Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 What the brick does is act as a heat sink until the forge comes up to temperature. It will take around 20 minutes to bring that up to welding heat. Compare that to 8-10 minutes without a brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles dP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Can everyone else see the pictures then? All I get is the old “photo bucket doesn’t share” images. "The way we win matters" (Ender Wiggins) Orson Scott Card Nos, qui libertate donati sumus, nes cimus quid constet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hewitt Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 No, no pictures here either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I could see them yesterday, now they're gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Jones Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Photos should be good now. Photobucket apparently charges for hosting images, so I had to switch to a different site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lester Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 From what I see from your schematics I would say the the 3/4" brass nipple should work. Just drill and tap the cap for the T-fitting to receive it. I would also put a pin valve on before the ball valve (or after it for that matter) to give fine adjustment to the gas flow. I would replace the 1 1/2"X 1" reducer with a 1" black pipe for a burner tube. Doug HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Abbott Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/26/2018 at 4:37 PM, Jeremy Blohm said: I took Geoff's instruction and advice... works like a charm. "Brute force and dirt simple"... Amen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 We are really lucky to have such a wealth of information here. Even when someone comes up with a new way to skin the cat (the cat doesn't like any of them BTW) it is based on logic, experience and trial, which they share. Last night, for about one minute, I was sure that I had a great idea, that no one had ever thought of, for a forge burner. After due consderation the little voice in my head said, " Uhh, Vern, are you aware that your idea is great for making a...what do they call it....uhm beachball???no, baseball?... biscuit?..no....Bomb? Yah that's it, you freaking idiot a BOMB, that thing would blow up sure as heck." I won't even share where I was going with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Vosloo Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 On 1/31/2018 at 12:37 AM, Vern Wimmer said: We are really lucky to have such a wealth of information here. Even when someone comes up with a new way to skin the cat (the cat doesn't like any of them BTW) it is based on logic, experience and trial, which they share. Last night, for about one minute, I was sure that I had a great idea, that no one had ever thought of, for a forge burner. After due consderation the little voice in my head said, " Uhh, Vern, are you aware that your idea is great for making a...what do they call it....uhm beachball???no, baseball?... biscuit?..no....Bomb? Yah that's it, you freaking idiot a BOMB, that thing would blow up sure as heck." I won't even share where I was going with it. now we want to know Ross Vosloo Mhara Knives made in Zimbabwe https://www.mharaknives.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Ross Vosloo said: now we want to know If you are really curious, pm me. I don't want to even put it on the open net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles dP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said: If you are really curious, pm me. I don't want to even put it on the open net. How many PMs have you got so far? "The way we win matters" (Ender Wiggins) Orson Scott Card Nos, qui libertate donati sumus, nes cimus quid constet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vern Wimmer Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Charles du Preez said: How many PMs have you got so far? Zero, thankfully. I figured I'd have to write a boiler plate with a big disclaimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Jones Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Thanks for the info so far. Did some reading (thanks for the thread Geoff), made some adjustments, and started ordering some parts. All of them are in, put together the burner since that's really just a matter of screwing in the pipe and testing the lines. Did a test burn and... There's a gate valve on the other end of the hose just off the blower that isn't in the picture and a ball valve on the gas line. That one's visible, but the handle is flush with the line towards the ground. It took awhile to figure out the fuel/air mixture needed, and I gotta say I'm surprised at just how little air is needed to get the flame sustained. I thought it would be near full open, but 3 psi on the tank doesn't need much. I'll probably play around with it more tomorrow and paint the pipe black, but for now it's nice to know it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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