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Zeb Camper

Power hammer build questions

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Considering an Anyang or Big Blu will set you back in the realm of $6,000 (and a big compressor for the Blu for another $1500 or so), homebuilt or used mechanical is far cheaper.  If you know what you're doing and are a good scrounger you can build a decent hammer for well under $1000.  If you're lucky you can find an old Little Giant for $2500 and be ready to go.  My 50lb Star was built in 1925 and is still going strong, just used it today.  The 2hp motor is more than enough for it.  

As for the difference between a treadle hammer and a power hammer, a treadle hammer is powered by your leg.  They take the place of a striker for slow powerful blows using top tooling (used mine today for that as well), but they suck for drawing long tapers fast, which is something power hammers do extremely well.  A treadle hammer will run as fast as you can stomp it, in my case around 1 blow per second to get the full swing. My 50lb Star runs around 3 to 4 blows per second running flat out, but can do single blows or slower lighter blows as well.  They both have their uses, but one does not take the place of the other.  A really big self-contained hammer like a Nazel 3B can act like a treadle hammer, since they have so much room between the dies and they're so controllable.  The biggest Anyang can do that as well, but at less than half the weight, so not as efficient.  

In other words, a treadle hammer is to a power hammer as a file is to a belt grinder.  And the smallest Little Giant is the 25lb, which are cute little buggers at 5ft tall.  They run around 330 blows per minute, so they do a surprising amount of work for their size.  The head on my treadle hammer weighs around 80 pounds, but since you have to overcome the springs that hold it up the actual blow is more like a 20lb sledge.  The 50lb Star hits like a 10lb sledge, but at 250 blows per minute does a heck of a lot more than I can by hand.  It puts so much energy into the steel it'll stay hot far longer then it will by hand hammering.  It'll actually hold the steel at a full red heat with the pedal to the floor for as long as you care to do that.

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Im working on a treadle hammer that should be a bit quicker than most of whats out there.

Here is one that didnt have quite enough throw to build up speed, but it was very quick, the one im working on now should have about a foot of throw.

 

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I dont have a gnome to swing a tiny sledge or hold my tiny tooling for miniatures so the little treadle hammer is great. 

Here are some light taps.

 

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Pretty cool setup Steven! Wouldn't be much work to mechanize a hammer like that. It just goes to show you can make these as small and as cheap as you want.

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There is a really cool treadle hammer in this video. 3 minute 20 seconds 

 

 

Screenshot_20190424-101346_YouTube.jpg

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Progress... tomarrow I'll make this all eccentric like with the cranky thingy and stitch weld it to the tire rim and start making the new hammer and possibly rebuilding the army doo-dads.

I think this is gonna work good. The hammer is actually much heavier than I thought. Gotta be 70 lbs or more. If I cut that weight in half I think its gonna start running a lot smoother. 

20190525_171555.jpg

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Well I'm getting there... here's some progress for today. 20190527_164808.jpg20190527_145352.jpg20190527_145428.jpg20190527_145332.jpg

I think its gonna do pretty good. Put deep fillet welds on everything on the hammer. It was hard to weld down in that hole, with a little flash photography I guess my blind welding skills are at least decent. 

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Hey, @Geoff Keyes can I ask you what you did for tup bearings on your hammer? IIRC, I thought you said there was no bearings... 

I bought everybody out of bearings when I built this thing and those same shelves at true value and tractor supply are still bare. 

I'm wondering if they were even the right alloy though, they've already started to get wobbled out. Mind you, I will be increasing the stress area by using the full 2" of bearing instead of the cut down sizes I was using. 

Would a steel spacer work just as well? Like a 3/4" bore and 1" OD inside a 1" bore hole and a 3/4" pin?  In theory I would still only replace spacers and pins instead of reboring or remaking parts. I dont imagine there would be enough energy transfer from the spacer to the part to deform it. 

The benefit of the steel is they are readily available. 

What do you think? 

 

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Something to consider, McMaster Carr has just about any size/style bearing you need.  On your doorstep in a couple days.

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Zeb, if you're talking about the connection from the eccentric to the tup, that was a real ratrod part of the build.  We discovered that a 289 wrist pin was the right size, we even used the existing shell bearings.  You could use a pillow block or even a bushing.  That part of the system is hardly going to be under high speed or high stress.

If you're talking about the tup in the guide, I used bronze strips, 4 of them inside the steel guide.  They have not shown any wear over the 20 years the hammer has been in service, and, although they are designed to be adjusted, I've never had to.

g

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@Geoff Keyes 

This part. So the connection between the hammer and the army dudes. 

15590907487689055155814589024968.jpg

I realize you used the spring bundle instead of the little giant type mechanism, but there is still that joint there. Did you use a bronze bushing there? 

And thanks man!

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Ah, the toggle ends.  There are two places.  There is the connection of the end of the spring to the toggle and at the other end, a connection to the tup,

For the spring end we just took a heat on the longest spring and rolled it around the pin and then smoothed it with a die grinder.  We didn't even HT the spring afterwards,  just left it as forged.  On the tup end the wrist pins are just pushed through the steel block, it's been steel on steel for all of that time.  I think a pressed in bushing would be plenty.

Hammer mid.jpg

Hammer guide.jpg

tup, 2' across.JPG

sprgmock1.jpg

Hopefully the pics make clear what I'm saying. 

I figure that my hammer will out live me by a long time.  If at some point an owner want to put bushing in, there is plenty of space to do so.  We over built everything

 

g

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Thanks a ton Geoff! If it lasted you I think you said 18-19 years steel on steel I might just use steel bushings. If I have to replace a bolt and bushing in half that time I wont complain. I can pick them up at the hardware store or get the cadmium plated ones from tractor supply. I'm not sure which would be better. 

Do you remember the name of your hammer thread you posted about a year ago? I might go back and look over it. I like the way your guide system is set up. I might borrow that, because I'll be using uhmw and it could wear faster. 

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Been obsessing over this... Waiting for uhmw and seamless tube to come in, and designed the hammer I would make if I had to start over. Hope the drawing makes sense. I think you could make the frame out of angle iron or tubing. Make it sorta Eiffel Tower lookin. 

15593982446878955448940098025719.jpg

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I know I'm overbuilding by now, but it's going good. I'm pretty certain the new plan is gonna work good. Borrowed Geoff's guide set up. Btw, one does not simply buy 5/8"x 5" bolts with full thread. I had to make em out of all thread and plug weld a nut on top.

20190616_214143.jpg

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Note on safety...I do not remember seeing a warning about welding on rims with tires mounted. Unless the bead is unseated, the welding heat could result in a tire explosion. Bad news.

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Shoot! Well, what you dont know can't hurt you right? :ph34r:

I was worried about getting it too hot, but that's why I made tacks all the way across the rim from each other and tried my best to just barely fuse that rim to the 3/8" plate. I'll make sure to let the air out and break the bead before I try something like that again.

Thanks man!

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Woke up this morning with one of my seemingly bi-annual occular migraines, so I left work early when the headache got good and set in, got home, took a 2 hour nap, and felt okay enough after that to work on this piece o' junk. Need to weld the new guide on next.

I'm kind of worried the hammer will be too light now... We shall see...

20190625_200859.jpg

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I used these guys for a phase converter.  Good price, good tech support, free delivery.  The unit has worked without a hitch for 10 years.

I don't know anything about this motor in specific,, but the company treated me fine.

 

Geoff

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Posted (edited)

I had to fight myself pretty hard to let go of the cash, but I bit the bullet, and now it's done. 

Meanwhile, the base of the frame is now reinforced and much more balanced, more counterweight added, guide welded to the frame, and all the joints are rebuilt to last a lifetime. I just need to assemble everything, put the motor on, and fabricate that steel drive wheel. 

Contemplating adding a brake... I dont really need it though. I've mainly just used it wide open drawing out damascus. Also thinking about adding grease nipples on the 4 sides of the guide. More weight to the anvil wouldnt hurt... Maybe later.20190707_153857.jpg

Edited by Zeb Camper
Junk got all whack

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