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wendal

Grinder question

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So I am sure this has been asked before.

Build or buy a belt grinder?

I was looking very seriously at the KMG 3 speed 2x72 machine.

I was also looking at some attachments on ebay.  tool arm and small wheel attachment. ect

I think by the time I buy quality components buying one wont be that much more money.

I have a homemade 2x72 currently.  I have made several knives.

I would like to upgrade my grinder per say.  I have out grown it. 

Any advice would be great.

thanks 

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Building or buying the next tool always comes down to the same thing, do you have the time to invest in building one, or are you at a point where just buying it will be a savings in the long run?  Meaning if you buy it, will you be producing more product right away and recoup the cost of it.  (I'm assuming your attempting to sell these knives you've made?)

 

 

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Do a Google search of the forum lots of debate. 

I'll make my opinion short and controversial. My latest grinder is a 2x72 Coote because I like a 2 wheel for some things and I have extra motors around.

The closest competition in my shopping was the Oregon Blade Maker. Not to poo on the fine KMG but if I were thinking of dropping that kind of coin I'd look at the full tilt boogie OBM with the motor and speed control. If you really need/want three speeds why not go with completely variable ?

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I have not sold any knives yet.

I will try in the future.

I kinda want to just buy one.  This is a hobby for me know.

I have a homemade grinder and it's good but has limitations.  no tracking wheel and only a platen.

Nothing removable.  

I don't really want to spend the money on the KMG but I have been down the get me by road before.

That has cost me more in the long run.  LOL

I am not sure the lighter duty one on ebay are the way to go.  Maybe they would be.  The look to do everything the kmg will do.  

I would not say I am a knife make.  Maybe a guy how makes knives in his spare time. LOL

I have sold a few guns to pay for the grinder.  So the pain has already been felt.  :)

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Here is a picture of the last knife I made.

I made it out of a rasp.  

The sheath is my first one I made form kydex.  

So lots of work to do and lots to learn.

knife 1.JPG

knife 2.JPG

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I don't know any OBM owners who refer to them as "light duty especially the welded ones. They just have a low overhead and use ebay to that end. They also supply a lot of the parts most often used in diy builds. Just beware because there are some unscrupulous folks out there having cheap copies of the OBM made overseas and they are using advertising pics that are close copies of OBM's. If you aren't dealing with OBM in Oregon ...Danger.

It looks like you have a good start there. You might want to post the pics in the "design and critique" section of the forum to get more specific feedback and advice.

Welcome aboard. This is probably the best place for advice, information and inspiration.

Of course you are going to have to tell about your forge/heat treating system and other details.

 

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I have a forge I bought on ebay.  I bring the knife to temp.  Where it is non magnetic.

I quench in oil.  Motor oil.  I have a regular oven and I go 1 hour at 400 degrees for an hour and let cool then another hour at 400.

I did not come up with this myself.  I watch a lot of youtube videos.

I hope this method is ok.

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check out the video of Moe's grinder on the Grinders page of my web-site then go to the DVD page for pictures of the parts for building this simple to build with basic welding skills not to mention the versatility .  You can find the url and other contact info on my Profile.  I prefer e-mails.

Wayne

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OK the OBM grinder is looking pretty good.

Do you guys run yours 110 or 220?

thanks

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58 minutes ago, wendal said:

I have a forge I bought on ebay.  I bring the knife to temp.  Where it is non magnetic.

I quench in oil.  Motor oil.  I have a regular oven and I go 1 hour at 400 degrees for an hour and let cool then another hour at 400.

I did not come up with this myself.  I watch a lot of youtube videos.

I hope this method is ok.

Well... just because you see it on a youtube video doesn't always mean it's right. I suggest you read the "so you want to make a knife" thread pinned at the top of this very forum section. Just as a guideline non-magnetic is, with one or two exceptions not where you want to quench at, especially with a "mystery" steel which is just about any steel repurposed from a former life. You need to look for decalescence in the blade. The exceptions I mentioned will show decalescence at very close to non-magnetic. 

Motor oil is not a quenchant that most on this forum would suggest. It is not a really great viscosity for the purpose, used it's quite unhealthy and new isn't much better, it is hygroscopic which means it attracts water which really monkeys with the results, it has all kinds of additives which do not provide consistent results and consistency is a good goal. The good news is that a low cost alternative exists that performs better than motor oil with a lot of new steels and most mystery steels. Grocery store Canola oil is a pretty good quenchant especially when heated to about 120-130 F. 

For years I thought motor oil was doing the job as well as I could expect then I started looking at genuine (expensive) quenching oils and started to research how they worked on blades. Lo and behold I found someone who had figured out the Canola oil trick.

I hesitate to use the term "foolproof" but, with a lot of the 10xx series of steels, once you learn to spot decalescence, learn a bit about thermal cycling and the effects of temperature and time at temperature on steel and quench in warmed Canola, it can be simple and almost foolproof to get great results.

Not trying to be a fussbudget but a lot of us have gone through most of the "old wives tales" and have learned better and want to share it with others to help them get better results.

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Thank you for sharing.  I ll look into the oil.  I built a quench tank out of 4x4 tubing.  I think I might have made it to big.  LOL

I am starting to look at steel.  I used files to learn on and experiment with.

I was thinking 01 steel would be good to start with.  Is that a good place to start?

thanks again for the heads up.

I am currently working on 2 knives and will get the oil changed out ASAP.

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Looks like 1084 is what I need to get.

Any way I need some belts new oil and now some steel.

The wife is not going to like this LOL

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OK one more question before I am off to bed.

Not sure why this popped in my head but  when you epoxy your handle scales on do you peen the pins too or just trust the epoxy to work?

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12 minutes ago, wendal said:

OK one more question before I am off to bed.

Not sure why this popped in my head but  when you epoxy your handle scales on do you peen the pins too or just trust the epoxy to work?

There's a question with no "right" answer. The folks that use really expensive materials for handle scales tend not to peen. Those who recreate period peices go with the way the original was done. Me? I make plain, dumb working knives with, generally, nice hardwood handles so before I glue up I put a slight countersink on both sides of the tang hole(s) and on the back/tang side of the holes in the handle slabs and when I glue up I peen the brass pins slightly on the hope that they slightly upset around the holes thereby locking in place or the countersinks let more epoxy grab them or...both.

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2 quick questions.

Where is a good place to buy steel?

OMB or KMG grinder?  kmg is more money.  Is it worth it?

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I've always gotten my steel from admiral steel. The prices there always seemed good to me.

I'm assuming by OMB you mean OBM? I haven't used a KMG grinder, but pricing on their website you can get the same setup as one of their grinders from OBM for half the price. The chassis has two detachable slots for whatever you want, tracking wheel, and solid heavy frame. Choose whatever motor/VFD combo you want and you're good to go. I've never heard anyone complain about either, so you should be good either way.

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Yes sir OBM  poor typing and poor proof reading  lol

I had it in my head that the KMG was the only way to go.

I am not a pro and I may never be.  I strongly leaning towards the OBM grinder.

 

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Ok I figured lol. 

The chassis is solid, and the attachable parts they sell are just as good. Just doing some quick pricing in my head the same rough package from an OBM setup would be $1000-1250 where a KMG would cost you about $2250. I not so sure about their motor/vfd combo, most people seem to just buy their own (as did I). Plus its only 1 hp I think, so you could probably get some more juice for the price they're asking for it. I went with an OBM and it works great for me, just if you go that route do some research and find a decent motor/vfd to use with it.

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I call Aldo Bruno at New Jersey Steel Baron for my steel. He is kind of the guy that's made 80CrV2 popular and available. It wasn't really being understood when it was called 1080+. Other folks here use Alpha IIRC. A couple of folks here, me included, tried Admiral and..... well.......

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16 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said:

I call Aldo Bruno at New Jersey Steel Baron for my steel. He is kind of the guy that's made 80CrV2 popular and available. It wasn't really being understood when it was called 1080+. Other folks here use Alpha IIRC. A couple of folks here, me included, tried Admiral and..... well.......

What's wrong with Admiral? That's mainly where I've been shopping, so if there's something wrong with them that I don't know about...

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Admiral got a bit of a black eye a few years ago when they were selling 8670 as L-6 (they are close, but not identical) and at the same time they had a batch of 1095 with severe alloy banding from poor processing at the mill.  They have since fixed both issues.  I like Aldo because I know him personally, and because he made 1084 available again AND added a pinch of vanadium for grain growth control.  Not only that, he also has custom melts of W2 made just for him, along with a wider range of thicknesses of 15N20 flats than anyone else.  But Admiral is okay too.

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Thanks for clarifying. Their prices have always been a bit lower compared to most places I've seen, so that's good to hear that there aren't any ongoing problems.

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My glitch with Admiral dates back to my first order of 1095 when the person I ordered from told me "It's a great knife steel and has the advantage of water quenching".

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3 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said:

My glitch with Admiral dates back to my first order of 1095 when the person I ordered from told me "It's a great knife steel and has the advantage of water quenching".

Ha! Yeah. TING! 

Another vote here for Aldo. He has lots of alloys in way more sizes than most places, he ships fast, and i have never once had a problem with anything hes sent me.

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