Shear Steel; The Experiment Begins

[Jan Ysselstein]

What is "double sheared diamond steel"  and where was it made? I have an old heavy rasp ( hard to lift and almost impossible to use with one hand ) labeled "diamond" steel but no reference to double shearing.

[Will Wilcox]

Thanks guys. Alan, i would imagine you are correct, the bone charcoal being used mainly to do something with leftover scraps. Interesting, nonetheless. 

The charcoal powder i have is from the charcoal i make, which is mostly maple, oak, and ash. Little bit of hickory every now and again. Not sure if wood type has any effect, but like you said, carbon is carbon. 

I wonder if you could fill the pipe with ground up graphite? (Not going to try it lol)

Jan, i believe he was just making a jest. But if my memory serves, Nicholson used to make "diamond" files (i believe the diamond part is just as an homage to how hard they are) and they are VERY high carbon, something in the 1.3-1.5% C range. Not sure about rasps, however. 

[Alan Longmire]

Yes, it was a joke, Nicholson Black Diamond files and rasps were a reference to their hardness, as industrial diamonds used to be called black diamonds (see for example of other hard things called that the song of that title by KISS  ).  Double shear is just twice-refined shear steel.

Graphite can work, but the carbon is not as soluble.  Some have tried it in wootz melts, and it doesn't seem to work as well as plain old charcoal powder.  Willow charcoal is supposed to make the best gunpowder, softwood (pine, fir, larch) the best iron.  

[Will Wilcox]

Interesting. Thanks for the info, Alan.

Didnt get around to doing any forging today. Hopefully tomorrow. 

[Richard Furrer]

Three things Will,

Don't over think it.

Keep notes.

Try to see what is really happening rather than what you think is happening...and keep at it.

[Will Wilcox]

Thank you, Ric. 

I tend to overthink and undershoot everything .

Today has been a right $&%@ show. I dont believe much in luck, but boy there seems to be a dark cloud above me today. Good day to put the hammer down and crack a few cold ones. 

On the plus side, got another billet welded up, the second one pictured above on the anvil. Nothing special enough to show a pic of.

[Will Wilcox]

So i got the two billets cut up and was cleaning them and preparing for re-welding earlier today. While grinding everything to bare metal, it occured to me that the iron looks very homogenous. The sides no longer show large inclusions, they are still there, but are very small. Ill attach a photo.

Point is, im not sure i need to refine them anymore. The small amount of impurities remaining should be worked out while welding them together later. So im going to forge them out into thin strips and go for the carburizing (still need to make a third billet, not quite enough iron here to make what im planning.)

Also, i did a cut and break on a piece of the billet, and the grain looks interesting, a result of being welded with alternating grain directions, i assume.

Apologies for the bad photos, only had my phone on me. 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Will W.
Added content

[Alan Longmire]

I think you're on the right track.  Carry on!

[Will Wilcox]

So in keeping with the relatively primitive theme i seem to be going with, i headed down to the river near my abode in search of clay for the pipe. The iron is not ready yet, but i figured i would start experimenting with the clay before i need it to work and not explode lol.

Walked a good 1/2 mile along the river in search of an exposed vein. Wish i had my camera on me, it was a nice walk. Saw a few geese, tons of ducks, and a great blue heron. Would have been able to get a great shot of it, if i had the camera on me. Oh well.

Anyway, i eventually stumbled upon a good looking section around a bend in the river. The banks were very steep, but i had already gone knee deep in the river a few times, investigating not-quite clay, so it didnt bother me in the slightest. 

There was a very sharp line between soil and clay, and thats what tipped me off to it. The first picture shows it best, on the left side of the river. One would assume that this is just a line from the level of the water, but the river is actually very high as is from all the melt off.

The stuff on the surface was dry and flaky, but digging in a bit deeper revealed some nice looking clay. It was quite hard to begin with, but after getting it wet and kneading it around, became nicely pliable. Seems to be of quality, i can bend it around a lot without it cracking and breaking apart. I grabbed a large coffee can full of it, dry.

I will experiment with how it takes heat, when time allows. 

Now i am certainly no geologist, but i believe this is "blue" clay. A friend of mine who owns a quarry in the same valley says the earth around us is loaded with it. What i found interesting was how much rust there was in it, and therefore, iron. Not knowing much about it, maybe this is common. 

Much to my enjoyment, this is starting to feel less like a project, and more like an adventure .

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Will W.

[Alan Longmire]

Looks like a fine stoneware clay!  It should fire pale grey with big reddish-black spots from the iron.  And more importantly, it should hold up to far hotter temperatures than you will be using.  It should be good to at least 2200 degrees F without slumping.

Sorry, it's the historic archaeologist in me talking.  I collect local stoneware and claypit sites...

[Will Wilcox]

Thanks, yet again, Alan.

No need to apologize! I find it interesting myself. Please, divulge. 

I was actually hoping to make some stoneware from this, now that i have a good supply (#6,752,901 on the "to do" list, as a matter of fact.)

 

[Vern Wimmer]

50 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

Looks like a fine stoneware clay!  It should fire pale grey with big reddish-black spots from the iron.  And more importantly, it should hold up to far hotter temperatures than you will be using.  It should be good to at least 2200 degrees F without slumping.

Sorry, it's the historic archaeologist in me talking.  I collect local stoneware and claypit sites...

Alan, some day you and I should talk. I live very near the site of a 19th century brick works and some of the clay is present on the banks of the creek on my property. The area has long been inhabited, in fact a textbook specimen of a Clovis point was found here but oddly the inhabitants, of at least three different migration groups left no sign of using the clay. One singular fired clay animal figurine was found in an excavation of the site of (what we surmise/guess) was the largest trade village.

I know that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" but this area is strange in many of the things that are specifically, and uniquely missing yet present in the surrounding "neighborhood".

[Alan Longmire]

Will, were I you I'd make the clay box and lid and let it air dry until hard, then carefully fill it with iron and charcoal before sealing with fresh wet clay.  The Sheffield guys would fire the boxes and lids before packing and sealing them, but it's not that necessary.

Vern, lack of pottery is a West Coast thing.  Who needs it when you can weave a watertight basket you can cook in, after all?

[Will Wilcox]

I was actually wondering exactly how i was going to do it, Alan, so i appreciate your advice. A box would certainly be easier to pack than a cylinder. Many thanks.

Would firing the box and lid before carburizing help, even by a slim amount, in terms of strength of the clay? I would like to increase my odds of success by as much as possible. 

And prevent a BOOM. Seems rapid temperature increase with potentially trapped water in the clay could result in a steam explosion. But honestly, i dont know much about working with the stuff, just speculating. 

Maybe drying in the sun for a few days would be enough?

[Alan Longmire]

Firing would certainly help, but unless you have a kiln that's gonna be tricky...

[Will Wilcox]

I know you can do it in a wood fire, but thats about as precise as a shotgun lol.

[Will Wilcox]

Not much progress lately. I got another piece of iron, similar to the what i had before, and am going to follow the same procedure with it. Hoping to do some forging tomorrow. 

Its probably unwise to plan a blade before i even have any steel made, but here goes .

Im planning to make a langseax, a "true" one, not a broken back. It will be a combination of historical and modern construction. 

Allow me to apologize for my horrible artistry, its out of proportion, but its a rough preliminary drawing. Im shooting for an 18" blade and a 5" hilt (45cm and 12cm, respectively). So more of a war knife  than anything. Probably ~2 inchs (5 cm) wide at its widest point, and 0.125" - .1875" thick (3.175mm - 4.75mm) tapering to 0 at the tip. Full flat grind with no ricasso. Maybe some file work on the spine, undecided as of yet. 

Bronze for the "guard" and "pommel" with ebony and bone for the handle. Peened tang to hold it. I want to try to do some simple scrimshaw on the bone (barely visible in the drawing) and maybe some ornamentation on the bronze, though i have no plans as to what yet. I think it would be cool to inlay silver bands into the bronze, but ive never inlayed anything .

Im also debating about whether to use iron with a shear steel edge, or all shear steel. I will (hopefully) have enough to for the blade to be entirely steel. 

Also wondering; to fuller, or not to fuller. 

Any thoughts, comments, or critiques on the design are welcome and encouraged. 

[Will Wilcox]

As an update, this project here is still ongoing.

Have not been having much luck lately regarding the clay. Ive been experimenting with heating it, to make sure it will withstand it when the time comes, and everytime i try to fire it, it breaks apart. Using wood for the heat source, with no forced air being added. Ive been making simple little things like ashtrays or bowls for the test pieces, might as well get something useful out of the experiment.

Possibly a result of my process? Or sub par clay? Ive been very thorough with working the clay so its smooth and homogenous and leaving no chunks in it, but still no luck. I know a wood fire is really not ideal for this type of thing, but its about all i have to work with, and it simulates the scenario it will be under during the carburizing of the iron, to a lesser extent. 

With my supply of clay frozen under the winter snow, im not sure ill be able to return to this until the spring. 

[Alan Longmire]

It may be the clay itself, may not.  It might need a tempering agent (this means something totally different for pottery) like sand or crushed already-fired clay.  These help hold the fresh clay together during drying and firing.  You need a good stoneware clay, as I think I said earlier.  

...or just do it in a steel can.

[Will Wilcox]

Im being hard headed here, and i want to do it with clay. Whole idea being to do it more closely to how it would have been done centuries ago. I could just use a steel can, and it still may very well end up going that route, but my stubbornness will not allow it as of now  lol.

I had not thought to make an aggregate with sand in the clay. Sounds like its worth a try! I do still have a little clay left over. Thanks for the tip, Alan. 

[Joshua States]

Kevin Cashen just posted this video today. I'm waiting for part 2.

 

[C Craft]

When Kevin Cashen speaks I listen. I may not fully understand it the first time but, I go back and listen again till it does make sense!! 

[Joshua States]

8 hours ago, C Craft said:

I may not fully understand it the first time but, I go back and listen again till it does make sense!!

Yeah, Kevin is one of those people that you have to either hang out with for a while, or review what they said a few times before the light bulb turns on. I remember once asking him a question about machining 1095 after forging a billet with it and he gave me a very short and concise answer. I told him I missed all the "technobabble" he usually presents with an answer. I'm one of those guys who doesn't just want to know what to do, but I need to know the "why" of it. Kevin is very good at explaining the "why" as well as the how. It just takes a while to grasp the concepts.

[Alan Longmire]

Be sure to post part 2 when it shows up!  

It's funny, I learned about this stuff from him and Ric Furrer at a hammer-in in 2006.  Ric used modern carburizing compound and ended up with lots of blister steel connected by a base of cast iron.  Kevin said "Told ya."  

[Joshua States]

7 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Kevin said "Told ya."  

Ahh, but the seed was planted and in the last 12 years a shoot did sprout!