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So I succeeded in geting a hamon this time and I am at the point where I have the edge narrow but not sharp. I also figured out how to use my belt sander, while it's still not the best it was mostly poor technique that was causing me problems before.

The question is do most of you flat grind till you have a rough edge on it or do you sharpen from a narrow not sharp edge? 

Sharpening it from here will make the edge bevel a little wider as compared to more narrow if I grind a little more off i believe, but it will probably be easier to sharpen if I grind a little more. Questioning whether I should move to polishing or grind a little more 

Can't get my phones camera to focus on the edge, but it's pretty thin

I suppose it's just personal preference and I'm leaning towards doing a tiny bit more grinding 

20180603_163720.jpg

Edited by Zach Wade
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It all depends on what type of edge I am going for. If it is going to be a convex I'll go ahead and get both sides to just meet with my highest polishing belt before I do the furniture. If there is going to be a secondary bevel I just start it with my Delta wet wheel to be finished after the furniture. Either way I polish pretty high before the furniture goes on having that set up to install with a minimum of trouble for a polished blade.

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I take it to a zero edge with my jig and 36 then 80 then a trizac 100 then 45.

Then I lay the belt sander/grinder down so thew belt is going away from me.....and freehand to get a burr with the a45

Once I quit getting a burr I polish the edge on the buffer and green compound.

I havent cut myself since yesterday. lol

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I am curious about what I can't tell from the picture and what is unclear to me from your post.

You refer to it as a "flat grind" but you mention the "edge bevel" getting "wider" if you sharpen that bevel. Combining that with what I think I see in the picture it looks like you have a form of sabre grind on it rather than a flat grind ?

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What you've got there is a saber grind. A flat grind is a continuous, flat bevel from the edge to the spine with no transitions. I also notice that there's no ricasso. What kind of guard are you planning, if any?

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You might find it tricky to fit the guard without a ricasso or a full flat grind. You'll have to file the slot to match the contours of the grind, and I find it challenging enough when doing it with a flat grind, let alone following the angles. If you're very careful and take your time, it can be done.

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Like he said you have made a lot more work for yourself to make it look right. There is a lot more to designing and making a knife than creating an hamon. 

 

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Hmm never thought about that. Now that you mention it, it does sound like it's going to be difficult.

No going back now, guess I could leave the guard off, I was planning on carving a channel for the tang in a split piece of walnut

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You could take it to a full flat grind. The would make the guard fit a little bit easier. It's a fairly seaxy looking design, and a flat grind would be more in keeping with the seax style. 

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In the future, if you go for a full flat grind try grinding from the spine to the edge. 

Definitely begging for a seax/pukko handle

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Now that I think about it more I don't think I will be able to fill in the gap where the tang meets the blade for the guard without brazing, or soldering, well crap

Or narrowing the tang a good bit more

Now I truly understand the purpose of a ricasso

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9 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

Definitely begging for a seax/pukko handle

I believe your right, might have to try a little bit of wooden ornamentation. Gonna be a lot easier.

Back to the drawing board for the handle

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Many refer to a sabre grind as a "noob grind" because beginners often mistakenly think it is the easiest to do. Quite the opposite in fact.

I always strongly suggest that, when starting out, one should find a knife that is well made and examine every detail of it until the understand the purpose of every feature  like the ricasso, choil, plung grinds etc. With a forum here it is a good idea to to reference that knife and ask why those features are there.

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Thanks guys, that definitely gives me some thinking to do. I don't think I want to take it to a full flat grind at this point.

So I'm thinking a stacked all wood handle, maybe layering hickory and walnut, maybe throwing in  bit of curly maple instead of the hickory, I dunno. Cut the end off the tang intead of peening over bronze

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Zach, if that is your first go at knife-making, I just wanted to say WOW, that's actually impressive. If I can get even CLOSE to that I'll be on cloud nine. Don't feel bad, bro... that's looking fine sans ricasso! Please post your finished blade with the handle... I'm very curious how you make out. Cheers.

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The blade bevel has to continue through the tang to allow you to fit a guard with no gaps, it doesnt have to look good so just grind the snot out of it if you want to. The area where the guard will sit should be the thickest and the rest of the tang should have some distal taper.

 

 

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Do a Google search of the forum,

Search "wedge handled puukko" site: bladesmiths forum

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Ok so first, from the top down.

Vern, I realize there is more to designing and making a knife than creating a hamon, and maybe this is foolish but hamons are what originally drew me to the craft and I really want to make at least one knife with a hamon.

Although when I finish this one I am seriously considering doing a couple without hamons as the time spent polishing might be better spent on more basic skills. Then coming back to it when I can make a nice knife without one.

Gprimmer, no it's not my first shot at this, but I'm still a noob. Only got 2 done and one that still needs to have the furniture finished and attached. Thanks though, this is by far the best of them aside from the apparent design flaw.

Steven, That sounds like something that i should probably do no matter how I approach the handle design.

Back to Vern, Do you think that wedge design will work with the tang not being Flat? Maybe make the angles on the tang extend to the back of it before wedging? EDIT: then I believe I may have to go to full flat if I try that, hmm

I like that idea I'm just not 100% sure how to implement it right now

 

 

 

Edited by Zach Wade
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I've been running a fococatta idea coming from my woodworking days, using a technique called "fox wedging", through my head for knives like yours. Bear with me as I try to explain.

After upsizing your picture I think you have enough meat to your tang to cut a tiny shoulder on each side of the blade at th tang/blade shoulder and thin the tang to that dimension. This would give you a 4 sided shoulder to butt a bolster/guard against. Now, if you were to take a copper pipe cap f a fairly comparable size and carefully drill and file to give a flush square fit you could use the wedge technique with epoxy and it would have the pipe cap as a collar at the junction. Just dry fit a bit shory/tight So that the last 1/8" of the fit is driven on. You could even try some of the copper patina techniques to give it character.

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Something like this what you were getting at? Took me a Google search for fox wedge to understand what you were saying but that sounds like it could work well. 

Do you think drilling the hole for the tang  the closest size up from the size of the tang and filling it with epoxy putty to fit would interfere with the wedges? I don't think it should hurt it, all the expansions on the outside from what I saw. 

Excuse the rough drawing, and that's a beaten copper patina'd pipe cap if you can't tell. Oh and the tang blade intersection is sort of squared, for the shoulders, if you look closely at the two outside lines you might maybe be able to see it.

20180606_010050.jpg

Edited by Zach Wade
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