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AndyB

Trying to work out what to do next.

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I finished off cutting the opening of my door this morning.  Took for ever.  No I did not use a cut off wheel I did the door by hand so that took me some time.  I think I screwed up on the placement of it lol oh well live and learn I can still fix it if I really need to, but the opening is of a decent size.  I think it was 6 inches in length by 3 inches in height.  So not too bad.  I started on the next step and fixing my leg mounts to the forge body so I could drill out for the nuts and bolts to latch them on.  It's coming along but when I went do start the drill and drill out the holes it seemed like my bit did not just want to bite.  I tried a smaller bit size and that didn't want to bite either.  Should I have taken my punch and did a tap punch first before I started drilling?  The simple things sometimes seems easiest but I'm not sure what the best way to tackle mounting those flanges to the forge body is going to be.  Too bad I don't have a welder that would be so much easier but I gotta deal with what I have.  Thanks for the advice.  Also a small note on this one I forgot I could compile all of my questions into one thread.  I did some clean up of my topics this morning so my last topics were deleted all of my thread posts will be glued to this post or at least I'll try to keep it that way.

Legs 2.jpg

Legs 1.jpg

Door.jpg

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With a window that big what is the point of a door ?

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Lol OPPS.  Well Vern I was using a hacksaw to cut that out too.  I couldn't find a hack saw small enough to be able to cut that so I didn't have to go that big.   It's one of those UGH live and learn moments I guess.  But what I could also do too is put kastolite to fill in that gap more if I need to make it smaller.

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19 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said:

With a window that big what is the point of a door ?

I'm actually thinking about using that piece that I cut out of the big door as a flap type door.  I don't know if I could leave it as is if its open and when the forge would be running if it would be safe, or if I would need to have kaowool and kastolite on it.  But I also don't know whether I want to make slides for it so I can slide it to the left or right to open the window.  I'm not 100 percent sure on how I want to do that.

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I think expansion, contraction and warping are going to be the big problems with overcomplicating and overthinking it. 

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2 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

I think expansion, contraction and warping are going to be the big problems with overcomplicating and overthinking it. 

Good point.  I was okay with using the cut off wheel on the larger opening because I could secure the tank easier and be able to control my cuts some what better.  With that smaller piece though yea I wasn't going to risk causing self injury because I wouldn't have been able to secure that door piece properly.  But with the hacksaw it got a little bit bigger than I was even anticipating but at least there's a window for my work pieces.  I wound up breaking my dang small drill bit this morning on the holes, I forgot that I had one of those hole sizes things you know the triangle shaped bits for enlarging the holes for the bolts for the legs.  So far so good.  Except for breaking the bit.  I'm kinda mad about that but it was a cheap bit anyway so I can't get too bent out of shape about it lol.  But testing the size of the bolts I didn't get ones that were long enough to go through the holes in the flange and through the metal walls of the forge body.  Welp back over to home depot lol.  At least the bolts and nuts are cheap.

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It ain’t pretty and it sure as heck ain’t perfect.  But a couple of hours and two broken drill bits and the flanges for mounting legs to the forge are on.  They are only 3/4 inch flanges but they should be pretty sturdy.  The next objective is trying to figure out how and what I’m going to use as a hinge and latch for the big door.  Not to mention another trip to Home Depot to get bigger bolts.

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Edited by AndyB
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Okay so today I’m going to pick up a hinge from Home Depot and a latch.  I’m also planning on drilling the hole out for the burner.  I’m trying to figure out where the best place the hole should go in order to get the effect of the swirling flame and be able to evenly heat the entire forge.  Please keep in mind I’m planning on using only one burner.  Also with a 3/4 inch burner should I drill out the hole for the burner larger than that or just keep it at 3/4 inches?

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Before you get carried away here, find a piece of black iron pipe or uncoated tubing that the burner flare fits in loosely enough to need a set screw or two.  That is how you will be mounting the burner itself.  The flare is around 1/4" larger than the 3/4" pipe of the burner body, so you will need 1.25" pipe or tubing, not galvanized. Next, if you want the swirl effect, remember that the burner tube must enter tangent to the circumference of the inner chamber.  This means it will be parallel with the ground, not tilted like almost every other one you see.  That does not swirl, it just shifts the hot spot over to one side.  This also means you will have an oval hole.  A bit tricky, but the easiest way to do it is to drill it as it is, then stick a piece of pipe in there and torque it down to bend the shell until the pipe is tangent. 

The hardest part it figuring out where to put the hole, distance-wise.  Figure up how thick the lining is going to be, including all insulation and hard coating.  This will probably be around 2.5 inches or so for an average forge.  This measurement is how far down from the height of the forge body the top of the burner port needs to be to enter the chamber at a perfect tangent.  In theory.  In practice it's good to drop it another half-inch or so to make sure there will be clearance for the burner flare at the top.  So, for instance, if your lining is 2.5" thick, the burner hole needs to be 3" from the top of the shell.

How the heck do you determine where on the shell to mark the hole?  A yardstick and a ruler.  Or any pair of straight objects of sufficient length.  With the forge sitting horizontally on a flat surface, put the yardstick (or whatever) vertically at the center of the open end of the forge shell.  Make a mark on the stick 3 inches from the inside edge of the shell.  Now put the vertical stick on the outside of the long side of the forge, still keeping it perfectly vertical.  Now take the other stick and line it up perpendicular with the vertical stick (horizontal, in other words) and put it on that mark that represents 3" from the top of the shell.  Slide the horizontal stick towards the forge until it touches the side.  Make a mark here.  This is where the top of the hole needs to be.  Now measure the outside diameter of the pipe you're using to hold the burner.  Buy a hole saw this size.  Then make another mark on the forge shell one-half of the pipe diameter lower than the first mark.  This is the center where you will put the pilot bit of the hole saw.  Centerpunch this mark!  If you don't the pilot bit will skate all over and you'll lose your mark.

There are other ways to find where to put the hole (string and line level, theodolite, tape measure, laser level, etc.) but a yardstick and a pencil will do it faster and cheaper than any of those options.

How do you hold the pipe the burner fits in without welding it in place?  Trickier, but not impossible.  The pipe only needs to be an inch long outside the shell, but it can be buried in the insulation of the forge all the way to the face of the hard refractory.  This is not ideal (welding is), but is will work if you have the burner itself supported by something.  Personally, I'd insist that one joint be welded.  By anyone with a welder.  It doesn't need to be pretty, or airtight, or even anything more than a single tack weld.  

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6 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

The flare is around 1/4" larger than the 3/4" pipe of the burner body, so you will need 1.25

So I would need to drill out a hole roughly 4 inches in total diameter for the 1/4 and 3/4 inches.  If I did my math correctly.  The welder might be a problem until next month I will more than likely be picking up a harbor freight one just for projects unless I can find someone to weld it for me.  I was planning on using fire bricks at the bottom of the forge for a flat base, but those would be covered with the kastable along with the koawool lining around the forge and kastolite covering the lining.  I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bending the shell to get the desired angle.  The shell is basically sheet metal I think it's like a 16th of an inch thick or so.  Not too sure on that one.  So the shell should be easy to manipulate.    The main reason I'm building my own is so I'm more comfortable with the forge and actually learning how to do these things.  Just a bit confused with the hole placements.  I just don't want to mess this forge body up.

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No no no!  :o  Most likely a 1.25" hole.  Or maybe an inch and a half max.  Wait until you have the burner flare in your hot little hands, then go find a pipe it will fit through.  That is the pipe that's gonna be your burner tube support.

On the bending the shell thing, yeah, that's the idea.  It's thin and bends easily, so when you stick the pipe through the hole and it is sticking straight out, it won't take a lot of force to push on the pipe until it's tangent to the (so far imaginary) inner surface of the chamber.  You may not need to bend it at all if the pipe is a hair smaller than the hole.  

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STOP!!

You didn't do the math correctly.

Look at the forge you have. Is there a 4" hole for the burner tube?

would you need a 4" hole to mount one of your burners?

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Okay I will hold off on cutting that hole until I actually have a burner.  The only thing I was actually trying to do was save myself a bit of time so i could get the hole in and then place the wool and kasting material in and have it ready for the burner.  Thanks guys I could have mage a huge horible horrible mistake. On that note I will only do the hinge and latch today do you guys have any recomendations on those

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I came to a point where I had to break off on the forge build and do some removing of plant from my yard to make way for grass.  The gauge that I cut out I ground it down to the surface as much as possible no that isn’t the burner hole. Where is the bevis and butthead emoji when ya need one lol.  How ever I did start drilling out the holes for the hinge.  Once I ground the hole out from the gauge the left over brass just well fell out.

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Edited by AndyB

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What burner are you looking at?  Personally i would figure out a blown burner because you are working outside.

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Looks like I'd have to place the burners at enough of an angle so the flame literally rebounds off the opposite wall in order to get the swirl.  That was a good read Jeremy

Edited by AndyB

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1 hour ago, Jeremy Blohm said:

What burner are you looking at?  Personally i would figure out a blown burner because you are working outside.

I'm actually in all honestly okay with Venturie burners I'm a bit more familiar with them.  Forced air burners would probably a bit loud when in operation.  I'll be trying to keep the noise to a minimum when I start forging metal.  I don't know enough about forced air to feel safe around those types of burners.  As I said eventually I will be getting some wind protection up on the carport.  So I wont have to worry about the wind issue too much in the future hopefully.

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Besides that, you already have two venturi burners.

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35 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

Besides that, you already have two venturi burners.

Yes I do have two of them.  If I was comfortable enough to reconfigure them myself.  I would do that.  But I don't feel comfortable enough to do so.  That's just my healthy fear of an accidental would be propane boom that could possibly happen.  Not to mention I'm no professional lol.  So I'd literally have to have someone come over and literally help me with that one.  Blah I hate being a noob sometimes, but I guess I gotta start somewheres.  I probably will wind up using those burners that I have and go for a double set up.  But like I said already I'm just not comfortable taking them apart myself.  Well the gas lines at least.

Edited by AndyB

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The burners that I have yes I can use.  But my issue again is and sorry for repeating myself taking apart the gas line connections.  If I use both the burners then I think I could probably have a good running forge the burners are small.  The first photo is of what I don't feel comfortable changing myself.  The second photo is the exact measurement of the burner opening.  I measured it at the bottom of the burner where the flame would come out of.

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I am of the opinion that if you took out that hose connector that connects the right burner to the "T", and replaced it with a valve like the left side burner, you'd have a fairly good spacing and you could straddle the center of the OAL of your forge body with them. You would also have a bit more safety and versatility.

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12 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

I am of the opinion that if you took out that hose connector that connects the right burner to the "T", and replaced it with a valve like the left side burner, you'd have a fairly good spacing and you could straddle the center of the OAL of your forge body with them. You would also have a bit more safety and versatility.

Id actually like to do that Vern,  but not being knowledgeable on how to do that on my own there is a huge risk if I do it.  I mean I would love to use those, I would save money on the build by not having to buy burners.  But not knowing how to safely remove that hose and shorten the two burners with out having them go boom.  That's the only issue I have is me doing it.  If I knew what I was doing and was more confident in that area, well yea Id of already done that lol.

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First off, you don't want to shorten the burners just put in a valve that will also shorten the distance between them,

If you get the valve, some thread sealer made for propane and a crescent wrench it is about as complicated as switching lids on two jars of peanut butter. Trust me on this. Talk your electrician brother into it. All you have to do to check it is rub soapy water on the connections, hook it to the tank and see if there are any bubbles when you turn the gas on and open and close the valves.

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4 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

First off, you don't want to shorten the burners just put in a valve that will also shorten the distance between them,

If you get the valve, some thread sealer made for propane and a crescent wrench it is about as complicated as switching lids on two jars of peanut butter. Trust me on this. Talk your electrician brother into it. All you have to do to check it is rub soapy water on the connections, hook it to the tank and see if there are any bubbles when you turn the gas on and open and close the valves.

Lol that's what I meant not the burners me and my horrible horrible horrible gramer lol.  I think the connections there are 3/8 inch well from the line that connects to the hose going to the regulator it's 3/8ths of an inch.  I can get some gas rated sealing tape tomorrow and pray that I don't screw this up and swap out the rubber hose between the two burners with a shorter metal connection.  Just learning how to do all of this stuff has been a big struggle lol.  

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