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AndyB

Trying to work out what to do next.

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One thing you can do with a blown burner that is fairly dificult to do with a venturi is adjust it like an oxy acetylene torch. The way you would do it is by using a needle valve on the gas line which gives you fine tuning of the gas and you use a dimmer switch on your fan so you can control the amount of air coming in.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Jeremy Blohm said:

One thing you can do with a blown burner that is fairly dificult to do with a venturi is adjust it like an oxy acetylene torch. The way you would do it is by using a needle valve on the gas line which gives you fine tuning of the gas and you use a dimmer switch on your fan so you can control the amount of air coming in.

I'm going to have to figure out how to make that work and incorporate it.  At least when I make my own burner I'll know exactly how to operate it therefore feeling one hundred times more comfortable with operating the burner or burners.

Edited by AndyB

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As per watching the video and pausing it every time I hear the listed items I've come to understand that this is what I will need to build this burner.  Listed below this sentance.

 

1 inch by 8 inch black iron pipe

1 inch to 1/4 inch reducer

1 inch to 2 inch reducer

2 inch coupler

2 inch to 3/4   T

1/4 inch Street Elbow

2, 2 inch nipples.

3/4 inch to 1/4 inch hex

If I heard everything correctly in the youtube video that is the exact list of what I will need.  I think I got all that correct.

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Most blown burners (I can't really speak to venturi style) won't burn well, or at all, outside the forge.  I use a single burner of the type I show in the thread.  I don't use a flare at the injection end.  I have always used a constrictor at the injector because I have found that increases the speed of the gas/air flow and gives a better burn.  

I have used this burner on horizontal and vertical forges with good results.  My day-day forge uses one burner.  In my welding forge I wanted a greater hot zone and so I built a two burner, common rail version.  I used the fan from Kayne and Sons (this one, I think) and it's way too much air, I've got the intake shuttered about 80% and it still blows me out of the shop.  Heats some steel though.

Somewhere from 50 cfm to 100 cfm is fine, I have repurposed a bathroom vent fan for the job.

The real issue with gas forges is getting them to burn in the 1200-1500 F range.  All of the ones that I have built will run at 2000 - 2300 F with no problem.

Geoff

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Geoff Keyes said:

Most blown burners (I can't really speak to venturi style) won't burn well, or at all, outside the forge.  I use a single burner of the type I show in the thread.  I don't use a flare at the injection end.  I have always used a constrictor at the injector because I have found that increases the speed of the gas/air flow and gives a better burn.  

I have used this burner on horizontal and vertical forges with good results.  My day-day forge uses one burner.  In my welding forge I wanted a greater hot zone and so I built a two burner, common rail version.  I used the fan from Kayne and Sons (this one, I think) and it's way too much air, I've got the intake shuttered about 80% and it still blows me out of the shop.  Heats some steel though.

Somewhere from 50 cfm to 100 cfm is fine, I have repurposed a bathroom vent fan for the job.

The real issue with gas forges is getting them to burn in the 1200-1500 F range.  All of the ones that I have built will run at 2000 - 2300 F with no problem.

Geoff

Okay Geoff and thanks yea I was actually trying to think cost wise because I can't afford to go for broke on a burner build or burner buy.  Id flat out buy one already made if I had the option available. Your burner design looks very easy to construct the only question ive got is the fan, is it a 2 inch fan or what would you recomened because I’ve looked for small fans at home  depot but they’ve never had them. I was actually looking at the ones on amazon I can’t really afford to go 175 plus shipping.

Edited by AndyB

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2 hours ago, AndyB said:

is it a 2 inch fan or what would you recomened because I’ve looked for small fans at home  depot but they’ve never had them. I was actually looking at the ones on amazon I can’t really afford to go 175 plus shipping.

Believe it or not I use a bounce house blower on my forge. It is total overkill and I have a quarter turn valve I use to regulate the airflow. Got the blower from some guy on Craigs List for $30. 

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Heck I've still been trying to price out the piece of pipe that I'll need plus all the connectors I'll need lol 

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I think I’m going to pick up one of those little 125 amp flux welders.  That way I won’t have to worry about having someone weld parts together or on my forge I’d be able to do it myself.  The only reason I’m thinking the 125 amp machines is because I really don’t want to have to lay any more electric line to my shed.  But I think the machine for what it’s worth even though it’s flux core I’d be able to weld the flanges on and remove the bolts that I have in the forge.  Not only that I’d be able to weld the hinge of the door on better and the lace and the would both be pretty well secure.  

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Posted (edited)

I was out in the shed this morning looking around to see if I had any short pipe.  The only items that I had available i think are probably too long to use as burner tubes.  How ever they are 1 inch in diameter and 12 inches in length.  I have two of them.  I also have a 1 inch T I believe all three openings are 1 inch in diameter.  I still have to purchase some bits.  But not sure if I could use the 12 inch pieces and cut them down to size or not.

.0614180804a.jpg0614180804.jpg

Edited by AndyB

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Posted (edited)

Those should work fine as burner tubes.  I ended up cutting mine off on an angle to match the inside diameter of my forge.

Edited by Alex Middleton

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I'm just not sure if I would need to get an elbow or what not, for the pipe going vertical for the fan to connect to.  I'll have to get a reducer yet still a hex plug for the T to connect the gas line in.  So I still have some parts to acquire.  But I am glad I found those.  so with that being said one of those pipes will be the burner end so I guess the next question would be do I place it in the back of the forge for the one burner or do I place it directly in the middle of the forge.

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I'm at the point where I'm also not liking the screws that are holding the flanges onto the forge body that I'm creating.  Eventually at some point in the next week or so I will be picking up a little 125 amp flux welder only for welding things like this together.  But in the long run would it be better to just weld the flanges and door hinge and latch onto the body rather than bolting it down?  I'm sure once I actually have them all welded in I could easily remove the nuts and bolts holding them in place.  Would that be my better option?  As was once already said because of the expansion and contraction that's going to be happening when the forge actually gets lit and heats up and then cools down?

0612180916.thumb.jpg.c8029b387d5b032d44070c65a7d2424e.jpg

86702423-7AC9-455A-AFA3-81D6F84B7F8E.thumb.jpeg.0fe486954a2ea9a6121b29dc18d943ba.jpg

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On unscrewing the fittings on the burners you were looking at a few days ago, don't forget that 1) some pipe threads are tapered and will not go any tighter than a certain point, and 2) some gas fittings can be reverse/left hand threads that would come out the opposite of the way that you might expect.  Hopefully you already checked both possibilities, but I thought I'd mention them just in case it might help.

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I actually tried twisting right and left.  Both ways and no luck on getting those undone. 

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Posted (edited)

Okay so since seeing that I will be mostly working outside and everybody suggesting that I go with a Forced Air propane burner instead of a venturi set up.  It would probably be a better deturant especially if it is windy outside.  I'm not sure how well it would work but I've been asking folks about different styles of burners and what not.  I'm not very confident in myself in constructing one of these that it would be safe so I've been trying to figure out something that would be extremely simple to construct and actually make it work safely.  I was looking over Geoff Keys thread very closely I like the design it's simple.  But I'm not sure how well this design would work but I think I've come up with something that may work.  It would be an inch and a half going down to an inch in width on the burner end with a 1 1/2 inch reducer and 1 and 1/2 inch T.  So if I need to make any changes on this guys before the 29th this month on when I could get stuff for the burner build please let me know.  I'm not exactly sure how well this design would work.  I was also considering doing a quick connect type hook up for the propane line from the regulator to the burner. That may be a bit easier for me then having to snug everything up with a wrench every time.

Burner Design.png

Edited by AndyB

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Posted (edited)

I dont see why it wouldnt work. The inly thing i might do differently is have a 1 1/5 inch burner tube. Forced air burners like a little bigger burner tube. At least in my experiences.

Edited by Jeremy Blohm

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Posted (edited)

I was mainly trying to think of weight restrictions if it's a bigger sized burner I would have to figure out how I would hold it up in place especially once the fan is connected to the burner itself.  Id have to weld a small frame to it of some sort. The only real thing I would be worried about or overly worried about is the burner tip melting lol.

Edited by AndyB

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You really should put an elbow on it to be able to bring your blower up above your propane line.  Gas is heavier than air and you dont want it settling in your fan.  It could grenade on you the next time you turn it on.  I'll try to post a pic of mine when I can get to a little bit better internet connection.

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A slightly larger burner tube won't add that much more weight and the performance difference is well worth it.

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56 minutes ago, Alex Middleton said:

You really should put an elbow on it to be able to bring your blower up above your propane line.  Gas is heavier than air and you dont want it settling in your fan.  It could grenade on you the next time you turn it on.  I'll try to post a pic of mine when I can get to a little bit better internet connection.

I actually drew it upside down lol.  The air intake would be above the propane so basically flip that image upside down.

 

21 minutes ago, Jeremy Blohm said:

A slightly larger burner tube won't add that much more weight and the performance difference is well worth it.

Are you talking in pipe wall thickness?

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1 hour ago, Alex Middleton said:

You really should put an elbow on it to be able to bring your blower up above your propane line.  Gas is heavier than air and you dont want it settling in your fan.  It could grenade on you the next time you turn it on.  I'll try to post a pic of mine when I can get to a little bit better internet connection.

IMO it is always a good idea to make sure that the flame end of the burner is the lowest place in the whole air tube and the fan is above;

1) gas build in the fan can grenade it

2) the "whumpf" from gas build in the forge is no big deal

3) #2 may cause you to do #1 but #1 can cause you to #2.

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Posted (edited)

Here's a few of pics of my rig.  I'm not saying that's it's the most perfect setup, but it's worked well for me.  The blower is too loud, and put out waaaay to much air, but it was cheap and convenient so I went with it.

20180615_165321.jpg

20180615_165329.jpg20180615_165451.jpg

You were asking about burner placement before.  The last pic shows how the burner comes in on a tangent to the burn chamber to create the swirling effect.

She's rough, and when I rebuild her I'll do a few things differently, but she's done everything that I've asked her to so far.

Edited by Alex Middleton
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Oh dang that's a big burner lol. Is that straight 1 1/2 inch pipe all the way through? And hows the flame look on the burner end of sides the lit end of the tube?

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8 hours ago, Vern Wimmer said:

IMO it is always a good idea to make sure that the flame end of the burner is the lowest place in the whole air tube and the fan is above;

1) gas build in the fan can grenade it

2) the "whumpf" from gas build in the forge is no big deal

3) #2 may cause you to do #1 but #1 can cause you to #2.

Definitely not worried about the"Whumpf" already experienced that with the other burners lol.  Not an issue.

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Its a 1.5" pipe through the wall, with a 1.25" pipe slipped through it.  I had to turn down the 1.25" pipe to fit.  The theory was that I'd be able to take the burner tube out if I wanted to.  It's one of the things that I won't bother with next time.

The flame has a nice swirl inside the forge itself.

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