Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Thought i would start a WIP on my next project, a bird and trout hunting knife. 

First up is the design process. I wanted something that would come in under 250mm (10") total length, and be nice in the hand and easy to control for skinning or delicate work. Its going to be used for hunting and fishing here in Zim, so should be able to fillet a bream (Oreochromis niloticus) which can have quite a deep body on a big one, and be tough enough to slit the throat of a thrashing wildebeest that my uncles .375 messed up on... again. 

The steel used in going to be old leaf spring, from the same piece as my previous blade. After some performance testing I have no doubts as to its durability and edge retention. Handle will once again be teak (Baikiaea plurijuga). Im still torn between full tang and hidden tang construction. any one have any thoughts?

here is the working design:

20180711_163051[1].jpg

if anyone wants to weigh in on the design, now's the time :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Update time. Spent the day working on the hidden  tang handle. I gotta say, hidden tangs feel so much better for me. I love the way they look and feel. 

Well, here are the glam shots complete with sheath. Hope you all enjoy and feedback and critique welcome    Thanks gents. Definitely something to try on the next one 

Update time. It's a public holiday here in Zimbabwe, so I get a day in the workshop. Awesome.  So i know the general consensus about 1x30' belt Sanders isn't great, but i got this for basically f

Posted Images

That's a nice size, bigger than a standard B&T, but Nile Perch and Wildebeest are bigger than your standard grouse and trout...:lol:  How thick are you thinking?  You want thin enough to deal with the fish, but thick enough to not chip if you hit heavy bone.  I once reground the tip on a Puma b&t a customer's son used to dispatch a wounded ostrich.  He was trying to take the head off, and the last 6mm or so of the tip snapped off.  

Heat treatment is a bigger factor than thickness, of course.  The Puma was some kind of stainless, probably 440C, and that steel is fairly brittle at Rc 60.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, brian_newberry said:

I like the concept. I would go full tang. I would also add a curve To the belly of the back end of the handle.

Ok, will have a look at that on the sketch, see what I can come up with. Would that be for keeping the knife under control?

53 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

That's a nice size, bigger than a standard B&T, but Nile Perch and Wildebeest are bigger than your standard grouse and trout...:lol:  How thick are you thinking?  You want thin enough to deal with the fish, but thick enough to not chip if you hit heavy bone.  I once reground the tip on a Puma b&t a customer's son used to dispatch a wounded ostrich.  He was trying to take the head off, and the last 6mm or so of the tip snapped off.  

Heat treatment is a bigger factor than thickness, of course.  The Puma was some kind of stainless, probably 440C, and that steel is fairly brittle at Rc 60.  

I'm thinking around 5mm at the spine and then a flat grind from about half wat up the blade. The secondary bevel I think will be in the 20 degree range, seems like the best alrounder to me.

Ja, my uncle was sent a knife from the states, from a good family friend who comes out to visit from time to time. He was very proud of this little knife, having been told that it was all the rage with hunters state side. One of those ones with interchangeable blades. When we went for the coup de grace on a wildebeest, he pulls this thing put, goes for the throat, and it snaps in 2. Good thing I was on hand with my old EDC. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a plan.  Any distal taper?  A nice even taper allows the whole blade to flex like a fishing rod, which helps avoid the stress concentrations that can snap a tip.  Then again, given the intended use of this one, the sharpened crowbar concept might not be a bad thing.  And that is not a jab at your design!  That's something I heard years ago in reference to a knife with more thickness in the blade than necessary for the job.  The maker to whom that remark was addressed still uses the image of a crowbar under his name as his stamp. :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Alan Longmire said:

Sounds like a plan.  Any distal taper?  A nice even taper allows the whole blade to flex like a fishing rod, which helps avoid the stress concentrations that can snap a tip.  Then again, given the intended use of this one, the sharpened crowbar concept might not be a bad thing.  And that is not a jab at your design!  That's something I heard years ago in reference to a knife with more thickness in the blade than necessary for the job.  The maker to whom that remark was addressed still uses the image of a crowbar under his name as his stamp. :lol:

No offence taken :D I had a Kershaw caping knife that I wish had had more of a back bone, then it may have still been with us. 

The plan is for some distal taper, but not as much as you may see on an actual B&T. This is going to be an africanized bird and trout :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

The handle looks Iike a Russell "Canadian ", a sentimental favorite of mine.

I'd think about giving the blade a bit more belly so

A) you could get you knuckles off a cutting board if you used it as a camp knife.

B) you could lower your bevel line and move the full thickness spine closer to the tip for more support.

Edited by Vern Wimmer
Darned phone
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

The handle looks Iike a Russell "Canadian ", a sentimental favorite of mine.

I'd think about giving the blade a bit more belly so

A) you could get you knuckles off a cutting board if you used it as a camp knife.

B) you could lower your bevel line and move the full thickness spine closer to the tip for more support.

How's this? I dont want the belly too deep as I quite like the slim and sleek look. 

SmartSelect_20180711-200816_S Note.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just end up using my belt knife for a number of chores in camp. And, with all the talk in the thread about snapped tips i just thought moving the bevel line down, so it is more parallel to the crnterline of the whole knife woul give more "beef" closer to the tip.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

I just end up using my belt knife for a number of chores in camp. And, with all the talk in the thread about snapped tips i just thought moving the bevel line down, so it is more parallel to the crnterline of the whole knife woul give more "beef" closer to the tip.

Oh right, I see what you mean now. More like this

SmartSelect_20180711-202634_S Note.jpg

I'm just worries about how this may affect its ability to do fine work? Or is that more a function  of the edge geometry? 

And sorry for the dodge art work, it's all done on my phone now 

Edited by Ross Vosloo
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would consider rounding out the pommel end of the knife a little more to prevent hand slippage

I like the edge profile and I'm pretty much hooked on full tang design for these types of knives

Link to post
Share on other sites

You and I are in the same boat for making drawings except I have to do them on paper and shoot a picture. Mine have a reputation as comical.

With a design like that, and somewhere I have one I made, there is a temptation quite logically, to try and follow the edge with the bevel line instead of following the centerline of the overall knife because of the logical thought that it preserved the edge geometry, but if you are using a distal taper it is then possible to balance the shortening bevel with/against the thinning blade towards the tip. There is probably a math formula out there but that's not my bag. I know that I have a Kershaw folder with an almost identical blade profile (one of the Ken Onion designs), a "leek" I think and it is a little "iffy" at the tip because it is machine ground for uniformity. I reserve it for "on pavement" days. It is not a part of my EDC or in the woods kit. They kept to the centerline but the distal taper left it too thin for my taste. It's an interesting balancing act really.

Edited by Vern Wimmer
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Vern Wimmer said:

You and I are in the same boat for making drawings except I have to do them on paper and shoot a picture. Mine have a reputation as comical.

With a design like that, and somewhere I have one I made, there is a temptation quite logically, to try and follow the edge with the bevel line instead of following the centerline of the overall knife because of the logical thought that it preserved the edge geometry, but if you are using a distal taper it is then possible to balance the shortening bevel with/against the thinning blade towards the tip. There is probably a math formula out there but that's not my bag. I know that I have a Kershaw folder with an almost identical blade profile (one of the Ken Onion designs), a "leek" I think and it is a little "iffy" at the tip because it is machine ground for uniformity. I reserve it for "on pavement" days. It is not a part of my EDC or in the woods kit. They kept to the centerline but the distal taper left it too thin for my taste. It's an interesting balancing act really.

Ja, I'm ok on paper, it's just this editing on phone thing :D

I think I know the one your talking about. I'm not sure if that's gonna be within my shooting range for my second forged knife. So it may just be that I need to balance having enough material behind the edge with having it thin enough, not too thin. Maybe a convex edge is I'm order? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a fan of convex edges especially on knives that are likely to be resharpened, free hand, on a stone. If you look at them closely magnified a bit, after they've been resharpened like that, they will have a convexed cutting edge anyway since humans are not as consistent as machines and/or fixtures. I figure "might as well start out with that edge in mind to make the best of it anyway."

Edited by Vern Wimmer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the bad photo...the blue handled knife in the middle is almost exactly the dimensions you're aiming for.

The stock on that is about 5.5, 8mm leaf spring that I flattened and an engineering shop flat ground....no two pieces are the same.

Anyway, even with 5mm I'd suggest at least a higher saber or FFG.....and then convex the snot out of it. B)

IMG_20180527_212347_1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have a better photo....

BTW....first sight of your design I thought "Kershaw Leek"

My knife......when it was done I realised it's very close to a Spyderco Mule Team

DSC_1110.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gerhard said:

Sorry for the bad photo...the blue handled knife in the middle is almost exactly the dimensions you're aiming for.

The stock on that is about 5.5, 8mm leaf spring that I flattened and an engineering shop flat ground....no two pieces are the same.

Anyway, even with 5mm I'd suggest at least a higher saber or FFG.....and then convex the snot out of it. B)

 

nice knives Gerhard! i must admit i find myself drawn to the one on the far right.  

thanks for the pic of the knife in question, its a good reference for me. Im aiming for something with a bit more of a sleek and delicate, so it wont have the spine quite as high as yours. i also want the handle to be a little more sleek, with a slightly more accentuated curve

a question for all the experts. 

i had planned, and still do, on using old leaf spring. as i have mentioned, it has proven itself to me. However, i also have some EN9 available (1055), which i have been told is pretty tough stuff and takes a hamon really well. 

thoughts? im currently thinking of making 2 of these at the same time, one EN9, the other leaf spring

Link to post
Share on other sites

That knife on the right was forged from bearing casing......I suspect you could get hold of some, and compared to leaf spring the sharpness and edge retention will blow you away.... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Ross Vosloo said:

Ok, will have a look at that on the sketch, see what I can come up with. Would that be for keeping the knife under control?

 I tried drawing what I was thinking in terms of a subtle curve in the rear of the handle were you have the flat. I think I like the flat better! I don't think that a curve would really enhance control, I thought it would balance the handle better but the flat plays against the straight profile of the blade very nicely. I agree that this design  is reminiscent of the Canadian knife and the flat adds to that connection. I also agree that this design doesn't need a lot of belly. Have you thought about a full height grind on this? That would give you the distal taper and give you a very clean look. I would then convex the edge. My thinking on a design like this is you want a fine slicing edge and you would not use this knife for tough tasks so there is less need for a thicker blade. 

 

Edited by brian_newberry
Added to my comments.
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, brian_newberry said:

 Tried drawing what I was thinking in terms of a subtle curve in the rear of the handle were you have the flat. I think I like the flat better! I agree that it is reminiscent of the Canadian knife. I also agree that this design doesn't need a lot of belly. 

ja, thanks for the input, but when i tried it, i just didnt like the fit with the rest of the blade. thanks for the help though :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

update time. finally got some time behind the anvil today.

so heres the start. i originally wanted to use EN9, but i only have a 40mm diameter bar of it, and well, when all you have is a 4lb hammer and a bicep, then, well, thats a pretty daunting proposition. 

20180720_172202[1].jpg

plus, i was keen to try that k0036 i got this week. so here it is after being split in half length ways, but before the hollow was hammered out

20180720_180628[1].jpg

 

here we are after the preform was hammered in. again, although i have started the bevels, i left them thick. the spine is 4.8mm thick, and the edge is between 2.8mm and 3.5mm across its length, so yes, there will be quite a bit of filing. 20180721_165758[1].jpg

speaking of filing... this is where im at currently. scale taken off with a grinder, and the final profile draw filed in. the prints are gonna be my logo, which im figuring out how to etch on still. 

20180721_180127[1].jpg

so, where are according to the design?

20180721_180024[1].jpg

so, overall length is just over planned, the blade length itself is a bit longer. width wise, we are short by 5mm at the ricasso. and we dont have quite the sweeping curve at the back of the tang. all that being said, im still happy with the shape. i somehow think it looks even more elegant than the design was. 

so, thoughts?

Edited by Ross Vosloo
Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the shape better than the sketch.  I don't know why, but it just looks a little more businesslike to me.  Is that heavy channel your anvil?  Looks loud! :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

I like the shape better than the sketch.  I don't know why, but it just looks a little more businesslike to me.  Is that heavy channel your anvil?  Looks loud! :lol:

ja, thats my ASO, but its not channel. its something to do with the transmission from a 40tn Volvo ADT. 

heres a better pick of it whilst i was making my faux hardy hole cutter. its actually not that loud, although i do wear ear protection, and at least it has good bounce 

20180527_104701[1].jpg

Edited by Ross Vosloo
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Update time. It's a public holiday here in Zimbabwe, so I get a day in the workshop. Awesome. 

So i know the general consensus about 1x30' belt Sanders isn't great, but i got this for basically free, and to be honest, i dont really have any complaints. In fact, I'm loving it. 

20180730_073333.jpg

It takes a bit of getting used to,  it it really has helped speed up my bevel grinding, well, what used to be bevel filing. 

So the knife is all profiled up, and I'm going for a hamon on it.

20180730_082633.jpg

I've heard and seen good things with this exhaust sealer hamon technique, so that's what I'm going for. Out of the quench the edge was nice and hard and the spine was softer. Not as soft as pre-quench, but noticeably softer than the edge. Currently it's in the oven for temper. Couldn't really see a hamon yet, but then again I haven't even begun to polish. Hopefully we get a nice hamon. 

Updates pending throughout the day as I carry on. As always, thoughts and critiques welcome, it's how I know what to improve on 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And here's where today leaves off 

So, after much, much polishing, and etching, in both HCl and coffee, there is no hamon in this blade. There is a differential heat treat, but no visible hamon. 

On that note, a few thoughts. Perhaps I didnt put enough exhaust sealer in place. When I quenched, maybe I should have done an 8 second quench instead of letting the blade sit in the oil till hand able. Maybe I should have kept the spine in the clay hotter for longer? 

Well, the hamon wasn't a great success, but the blade is still shaping up nicely. And I got to try etching in my logo and makers mark.

IMG_20180730_155945_212.jpg

IMG_20180730_155945_215.jpg

IMG_20180730_155945_211.jpg

The first pic, the impala, is my logo. The second my makers mark. Room for improvement in both, but to be honest, this way exceeded my expectations.  A really nice deep etch. 

All thoughts welcome 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...