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Joël Mercier

Brut de forge on kitchen knives

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I posted my chisel ground santoku on another forum and a few people seamt to think my knife was downright unsuitable for the kitchen. Are they being sanitary Nazis? Here for a second opinion. 

Thanks guys

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I see no issues with it myself.  Those same people probably think kitchen knives must be stainless and cutting boards must be plastic.  :rolleyes:

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I bet I know what forum that was.  The group there tends to like to gang up on people, and loves to point out all of the hazards of living in a litigious society.  It is a shame because there are generally valid points being made, but they get lost because they are delivered with a bulldozer.  Many times I have seen people pile on crying out for a blade to be destroyed before it "kills" someone.  (I wish I was joking)

I can't say for certain what the rules for a commercial kitchen are.  I suspect wood handles and textured finishes on knives are frowned on by inspectors, but don't know that for sure.  However, all of my knives are pattern welded which increases texture, and I only use wood handles.

Does the texture increase the possibility of harboring pathogens?  Sure it does.  Does that make it more risky than anything else in my kitchen?  Probably not.  You just have to pay more attention to keeping it clean.

I see a lot of "Professionally" made knives from Japan that have an as forged finish outside of the bevels, and that is a culture that puts a pretty high value on cleanliness :)

Does your knife bring more risk to a kitchen than a Victorinox Fibrox Pro?  Yep!  As an analogy, I drive a small 2-seat roadster as a daily driver.  Does that pose more risk than an SUV when cruising along with the tractor-trailers?  Yep, but I accept the risk because I get enjoyment from it.

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Yeah, that was my point. Bad hygiene habits are much worse imo. Like cutting veggies with the same knife you used to cut raw meat...I also brought up the Japanese knives fact.

Also right about the ganging. 

Oh well, I feel relieved. :lol:

Thank you guys.

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Tell them they would be safer licking their toilette seat than touching the smartphones or computer keyboards.....you would not be wrong! :lol:

 

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I woulda responded with this: 

":P"

Didn't they ever read any studies like the ones that say it's better to hand wash dishes because it leaves just enough microbes behind to keep a healthy immune system? When you live too sanitary you actually put yourself at more risk of serious illness.

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I straight up quit logging into that forum because of this reason and many others. I stll browse through it but i quit posting and commenting because they are all...... well i will leave it at that. All there comments are coming from people that probably have no idea about making a knife. Honestly i think they look at us knife makers differently that artist blacksmiths and i think it is wrong. 

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Joel that knife is beautiful and i would love to have it in my knife drawer.

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Time spent fantasizing about dirty dishes is better spent dirtying dishes.

Saying one is dirty because the other is cleaner is like saying that were all too short because were not as tall as the tallest person in the world. That kind of "if youre not with us then youre against us" thinking is stupid and awful, there is a happy medium in practice which is cleaning your blade when its needed.

There are many things that are much more exciting to think about than food poisoning but if youre squinting so hard that you can see a germ on some forge scale you probably wont ever see any of it.

Im not big on sanitization but sometimes I wash off my soap bottle because thats what I grab when my hands are danger gross, I wonder if other people do that too?

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Salmonella is quite nasty, I got it once. Of course, I do understand the risks are higher with a porous surface. That is why I have a dedicated knife for raw meat that I won't use for other things unless it's been toughrougly washed. Of course, this is just common sense. 

Perhaps I should include a disclaimer regarding that question for my next sale.

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For those finding this thread and wondering what knife is in question, here is Joël's thread showing it off.  

Personally, I wouldn't want to have a knife with that texture for kitchen work or field dressing an animal, because I would have to spend a little more time cleaning it and I hate doing dishes.  The few extra seconds it takes to clean would irk me every time, and the look isn't worth that to me.  This is 100% personal preference though.  If you loved the look and didn't mind taking a few extra seconds to scrub every time you washed it, I don't see a big problem.  I could see some health inspector having a problem due to some blanket rule on porous surfaces, but we all know that there are inherent problems with blanket rules, even if they are the best solution to a problem.  

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8 hours ago, Zeb Camper said:

When you live too sanitary you actually put yourself at more risk of serious illness.

This ^ This^ This^

While serious pathogens like salmonella are an issue, exposure to most pathogens is good for you! Its how your body builds immunities and keeps your immune system active. 

I think everybody else covered the point well enough. Just clean it if youre worried about it being dirty.

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Thanks Jerrod, I was hoping to see the knife in question. I think those guys are high, Joel. No reason why it couldn't be a fine tool in the kitchen. Just, umm, keep it clean? Common sense is becoming less common these days... B)

Zeb and Will, absolutely!

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On 7/13/2018 at 6:46 AM, Joël Mercier said:

Nazis?  

Thanks guys

Those people just cant give it up can they?

Edited by Jeremy Blohm

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Are they from Illinois ? I hate Illinois nazis.

 

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Haha....glenn stepped in and closed the thread. Im boycotting that forum!!!

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I just thought I'd throw something in

I happen to pull out the knives from my deer disassembly kit while this thread was going. I need to do a little cleaning but I have a picture of a Case brand and I also have Chicago and Old Hickory knives with similar texturing on the blades. The also have their touch marks in the blades. Wow. Talk about places for evil to lurk. I guess I should be dead by now after using such inferior and dangerous products. How all these people have survived all these years is a mystery. ( pardon me if this was covered on the other forum. I don't know which one but I know it sounds like I wouldn't care)

 

20180714_124647_crop_611x251.jpg

20180713_111821_crop_555x234.jpg

Edited by Vern Wimmer
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Yeah, I am boycotting that place as well. Strangely, I received mails from other members supporting me but none of them talked openly on the thread. Is there some kind of Omerta or something :lol:... ridiculous. 

Anyways, I am glad I learned everything here! And thank you guys for the support.

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1 hour ago, Joël Mercier said:

Yeah, I am boycotting that place as well. Strangely, I received mails from other members supporting me but none of them talked openly on the thread. Is there some kind of Omerta or something :lol:... ridiculous. 

Anyways, I am glad I learned everything here! And thank you guys for the support.

Arguments carried out on the internet are never finished, let alone won.  As soon as you realize you are in one, it is best to walk away and let the rest eat themselves up in the cross fire.

It's sort of like the first rule of holes.  Once you realize you are in one, stop digging!

It all illustrates the amazing vibe, and standards of behavior created by the founders of this forum.  It also illustrates the responsibility for those of us who have come along after Don Fogg retired if we want to keep it this way.

It is animal nature to attack weakness, and to join a group.  I think that is why most places on the web devolve into a virtual school yard.

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Very insightful Brian! I indeed felt like I was arguing with 50yo teenagers :lol:

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The older I get and the more I observe; the more it seems that no one ever truly grows up. You're either a good kid, or you need an attitude adjustment :lol:

 

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Yup I saw that.  I was quite confused.  Doesn't Murray carter keep the forged appearance on his knives? 

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I figured what forum y’all were talking about. and sure enough, I found the thread.

the whole thread I was gritting my teeth with anger. now I am all about safety, but they are truly safety nazis.

i use a brut de forge Knife in the field for preparing raw meat, you wanna know what I clean it with? Some water and a pad of palmetto fluff. I’ve never had a problem with it. I’m not gonna take soap with me in the field! 

i took a screenshot of something ironic in that thread. After you politely asked for people to stop condemning you about a truly personal opinion, Steve came back and said thisFB0FD656-3C82-4F18-A9B7-22E3613A59E5.jpeg 

 

and then after you said this small very true comment, guess what? Glenn decided It’s Time to shut down the thread!!!

46B4A8EC-D00F-4B3C-BE0D-2FEA4DEB9CBC.jpeg

 

That’s why I love this forum, even when there is a need to speak up about something potentially dangerous (for the record this Knife is not dangerous) we do it in a very polite way. 

Mason 

Edited by Mason Simonet

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It appears that we have a lot of people in our society who have always had the crusts cut off their sandwiches by mommy and making a knife on the weekend is the dirtiest they've ever been. I don't know how they manage to hunt, that's a pretty dirty thing where I come from. Again, I have not bothered to look at the thread but it would be obvious, to anyone who has ever washed silverware by hand, that cleaning a finish like that would be no more difficult than making sure the tines of a fork were clean. The old song was wrong we don't " live in a material world" we are now living in a "theoretical world".

 

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