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Vern Wimmer

80CrV2 versus hamon

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I thought this question was better off here than in heat treating.

We have seen that a hamon CAN be created in 80CrV2 but since it is a deep hardening steel it is sort of fighting what the steel wants. I have seen reports of alloy banding showing up in hamon attempts. Given that the Japanese hamon came about from differential quenching/hardening to give a hard edge without a brittle overall blade, has anyone found a downside, with regards to the integrity of the blade, from forcing hamon in 80CrV2 ? I can't see it as a problem with the cutting edge as long as temps are in the normal range, it's the rest of the blade I'm curious about.

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Shouldn't be any different than doing an edge quench or a soft-back draw to get the same effect.  Many a JS performance test blade has been done that way out of 5160, another deep-hardening chrome steel.

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Thanks that's what I thought but I've seen some people trying some home made voodoo trying for a hamon with the steel and given that it is sort of "unique" in a way I wondered if hamon might be its Kryptonite. 

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I just had the bright idea to look up the chemistry, and it turns out 80CrV2 has half the manganese and half the chrome of 5160, so it makes sense hamon attempts work a little better on it than on 5160.  At 0.5% of each, compared to 0.9-1.2%, it is not going to be as deep-hardening.  A low-manganese straight carbon steel is always going to be easier to produce excellent hamon with, of course.

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Anyone ever thought of a multibar or san mai blade with 80CrV2 (or whatever) for the edge, and Aldo's 1075 above that? You could perhaps have a hamon above the 80 CrV2.Off topic, but you got me thinking. I just bought a bunch of w2, 15n20, and 1080. I got a wild hair for doing something out of the norm soon. 

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1 hour ago, Zeb Camper said:

Anyone ever thought of a multibar or san mai blade with 80CrV2 (or whatever) for the edge, and Aldo's 1075 above that? You could perhaps have a hamon above the 80 CrV2.Off topic, but you got me thinking. I just bought a bunch of w2, 15n20, and 1080. I got a wild hair for doing something out of the norm soon. 

I would try straight W2 if you never used it yet. I'd love to see a hamon of yours with that steel!

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11 hours ago, Zeb Camper said:

Anyone ever thought of a multibar or san mai blade with 80CrV2 (or whatever) for the edge, and Aldo's 1075 above that? You could perhaps have a hamon above the 80 CrV2.Off topic, but you got me thinking. I just bought a bunch of w2, 15n20, and 1080. I got a wild hair for doing something out of the norm soon. 

Might be veering off topic here.... I've been tinkering around with an idea similar to that. In this case I have CruForge V at the edge and some medium carbon steel above it. With some pure nickel in there for good measure.

I ran out of propane and am currently waiting for the propane guy to come and set a 500 gallon tank. Once that guy gets installed, it's game on. Gonna be forging this bar into a knife real soon. Wanted to weld up a small billet just to make sure everything would stick.

bar.jpg

Edited by Cody Killgore
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Veer away freely. That is interesting as heck.

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Yeah, I'm going to be experimenting a bit with different lamination patterns. My original concept was really complex similar to some of the more complex Japanese patterns. But in the end, it seemed better to just keep it simple for now. That area in the middle where the nickel was raised was mostly just to see if I could get it to weld without inclusions in a channel like that.

Going to be testing the first couple for performance and to destruction. The top bar will harden but not as much as the cruforge. It sorta spawned out of the idea of differential heat treating. But thought I could just put a steel whose performance I like precisely where I want it on the blade. Heat treat it like normal and see what happens. Not that this is anything particularly new...

 

Edited by Cody Killgore

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