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Phil F

Forge Press Design Help

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10 minutes ago, Zeb Camper said:

Hey Phil, I gotta ask what you're welding with. Something's not quite right. If you have any questions about your machine or process, let me know if I can help. 

His welds look like he's running a stick welder with 6018 to be honest.  But that's just a guess.

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Power Mig on 220 v with .35 wire. Remember I’m not the most experienced welder. The excess mess at the top of the press was a half assed attempt to fill in a gap between the metal. I should have welded in a filler. I do plan on grinding it down to see how deep I got and rewelding if needed. I did take the time to clean the metal and some of the welds came out nice, almost professional, but then I decided to fill in over and butchered them. 

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1 hour ago, Zeb Camper said:

Hey Phil, I gotta ask what you're welding with. Something's not quite right. If you have any questions about your machine or process, let me know if I can help. 

I gotta second this. There's no way I would trust the welds, it looks like a lot of them are not penetrating.

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"I do not like the auto return detent so I’m going to buy a second “spring center” detent."

The detent on my splitter is simply a spring pushing a tiny ball into a grove. Take out the spring and ball and detent is gone, best I remember. Been a while since I had it apart.

Here's what has served me well for many years http://matthewdwalker.com/visit_my_studio/forging_press.pdf

 

 

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3 hours ago, Phil F said:

Power Mig on 220 v with .35 wire. Remember I’m not the most experienced welder. The excess mess at the top of the press was a half assed attempt to fill in a gap between the metal. I should have welded in a filler. I do plan on grinding it down to see how deep I got and rewelding if needed. I did take the time to clean the metal and some of the welds came out nice, almost professional, but then I decided to fill in over and butchered them. 

Call me crazy, but it looks like your gas is not set right. I see bubbles and holes. Are you using 75/25? What psi? Don't be afraid to check your machine for setting suggestions. I figure you may need 15 psi and you might be running 5. Or if you're using 100% co2 and trying to do vertical and overhead welds with it. 

I don't want to blow smoke or bust your chops but I worry for your safety. I would cut those out, or start a new if you could. Let me know of i can help!

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I'm not gonna sugar coat this, I'd abandon that frame etc. and just make forging dies for the log splitter.  That's going to work better and be safer.  Those welds do not look trustworthy and the design of everything really suggests an unfamiliarity with forging press necessities.  
You need to have good strong welds and a good strong guide system.

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Zeb - I’m using 75/25 Argon. It was set at 7 psi. I was told to set it around 5 psi. I’ll try 15 psi next time. Can you weld vertical and overhead with this set up?

Salem - I appreciate the concern. I did mention that area was me just trying to fill in a gap. I failed for sure. I will grind it out and most likely weld on another piece of metal. At this point I’m not going to abandon this project. Once it’s up and running if I think it’s unsafe I’ll abort the frame.

Matt - I’ll check out the website  

Thanks for all the comments and concerns. 

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6 minutes ago, Phil F said:

Zeb - I’m using 75/25 Argon. It was set at 7 psi. I was told to set it around 5 psi. I’ll try 15 psi next time. Can you weld vertical and overhead with this set up?

Salem - I appreciate the concern. I did mention that area was me just trying to fill in a gap. I failed for sure. I will grind it out and most likely weld on another piece of metal. At this point I’m not going to abandon this project. Once it’s up and running if I think it’s unsafe I’ll abort the frame.

Matt - I’ll check out the website  

Thanks for all the comments and concerns. 

I'm not sure what the problem is, but you're definitely not getting enough shielding gas. I'd have to watch you weld. Our shop welders require more psi at the regulator to work right. 75/25 can do horizontal, vertical down and overhead. I do all 3 at work with it... Might be your stick out length I'm not sure... Like I said, check what your welder recommends for the steel wire and gas types. Pop-pop-pop means it's too hot, shhht-shhht-shhht means it's too cold, and a noise like frying bacon is just right. Adjust your gas from 5 up until that oxygen stays out. 

Just be careful man! 

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Another thing to think about is possible cross breeze or moving air in the shop... that can really wreak havoc with shielding gas.  
If you can, tipping it over so you're welding flat rather than up or down would be preferable.  Often just because a weld could be performed vertical doesn't mean that's necessarily ideal given your particular situation, equipment, or experience.

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Salem - yet another element of welding I did not know but makes absolute sense. Most times I have a large floor oscillating shop fan blowing to get the fumes out of the garage. I’ll keep that in mind next time I fire up the welder. Thanks again!

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Phil I am going to give you some advise. First of all most hydraulic pumps ARE NOT rated at 3600 RPM but most of the time at either 1200 or 1800 RPM.

To calculate the horsepower to drive a pump here is the formula:  HP= PSI x GPM /1714 /.85 so if you were pumping 5 gpm at 2500 psi the size of electric motor required would be 5x2500/1714/.85 = 8.58 HP.

If you are driving the pump from a gas engine you have to obtain the HP curve of the engine and determine what HP  is available for the rpm you are driving the pump at.

Second thing you have a Parker 3.25 bore cylinder rated at 3000 psi so the most force you are going to get on that press is                           

3.25*3.25*3.14 /4*3000 = 24874 pounds of force if you run everything to the maximum. After looking at those welds my knees would be shaking if I had to operate that press. Please get someone to re weld it before someone gets hurt.

Thirdly why does everyone want to build a press with the cylinder on top of the frame? It really does not matter if you press up or press down the end result is the same. When I made this press, space requirements were a priority and I needed something very compact and portable.

144549.jpg

155558.jpg

103212.jpg

Good luck and I hope you get it running.

Edited by Cal G
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Cal - Great design. Originally I wanted my cylinder on the bottom. Based on everyone’s concern I may rethink my frame design. I only have about $100 in steel plus my time so to start over isn’t the worst. I’ll do a redesign. Hopefully your ok with me using your machine as a base.

Thanks again for your help. 

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9 hours ago, Cal G said:

Phil I am going to give you some advise. First of all most hydraulic pumps ARE NOT rated at 3600 RPM but most of the time at either 1200 or 1800 RPM.

To calculate the horsepower to drive a pump here is the formula:  HP= PSI x GPM /1714 /.85 so if you were pumping 5 gpm at 2500 psi the size of electric motor required would be 5x2500/1714/.85 = 8.58 HP.

If you are driving the pump from a gas engine you have to obtain the HP curve of the engine and determine what HP  is available for the rpm you are driving the pump at.

Second thing you have a Parker 3.25 bore cylinder rated at 3000 psi so the most force you are going to get on that press is                           

3.25*3.25*3.14 /4*3000 = 24874 pounds of force if you run everything to the maximum. After looking at those welds my knees would be shaking if I had to operate that press. Please get someone to re weld it before someone gets hurt.

Thirdly why does everyone want to build a press with the cylinder on top of the frame? It really does not matter if you press up or press down the end result is the same. When I made this press, space requirements were a priority and I needed something very compact and portable.

144549.jpg

155558.jpg

103212.jpg

Good luck and I hope you get it running.

Very slick!!! I've never seen a press and rolling mill take up so little space. I want one!!!

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Update: So I put the press to the side for now and built a new 3 burner forge. I’ve put on the front door and some misc supports since the attached pics. It’s running pretty good. Burner temps running about 2100+ degrees. The burner design is from a Utube video I found. I got some great welding advice from a friend’s brother who has been welding for over 40 years. Wow did it make a difference. I hope to start back on the press in a few weeks once I get my hydraulics all hooked up. 

E3DC0C0E-C0C3-46A4-B91E-022FF569C16D.jpeg

6FFC4823-3D89-4ABE-BBA3-DB51FCFF2A0F.jpeg

734401E5-F66B-414E-9299-DFB46BB77CF1.jpeg

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Happy Thanksgiving to you guys. 

10F5FBE8-5DA2-4175-A7AC-9F9F307CAFF1.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Phil F said:

Happy Thanksgiving to you guys. 

10F5FBE8-5DA2-4175-A7AC-9F9F307CAFF1.jpeg

Your making me thirsty!!!:D

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Happy Thanksgiving! The welds look much better on the forge! And you've got great taste B)

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Hey guys been busy. Switched gears for the last few months. Formed a club with my dad and uncles called Smoke abs Fire. We’re making knives and apocalypse type weapons. We just finished our power hammer. Came out great. Runs great. Just needs a few tweaks, electric, welding and some paint. I think it’s around a 35-40# hammer. Will try it on some hot steel next time we get together. Next I plan on reviving my press with a brand new design. I hope is well. 

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