Introduction WIP

[billyO]

Hello all.  I've been reading here for a while and after seeing the quality of workmanship here, thought I'd start using y'all to help me improve.  So I thought I'd do an introductory WIP

 

Not sure if this should be a separate WIP thread or just posted here (can someone explain me a difference?) but I thought I'd document the process of my latest knife so as to get some critiques on my techniques/process as well as answers to questions.  Also I thought I'd choose this knife because it's an overreach of my abilities, being an integral.  As far as shape/style, I'm shooting for a hunter/EDC but that's still up in the air, depending on the results of my forging.

Here we go....

 

The billet started as 6 layers of 5160 (3/16" x 1" x 8") and 7 layers of .130-140 of 15N20.  Here it is after the 1st weld

 

after getting drawn out, cut into 6 pieces and welded again, making 78 layers

 

trying to keep welding temps below 2150

 

Here's a quick etch after the 2nd day of forging

 

Heck,  why not risk another billet of similar construction at 150 layers!

 

...so let's make a 78-150-78 layer billet

 

Here's the obligatory kind of action shot of welding and starting to forge out the tang (sorry, you won't get any true action shots)

 

 

Tang forged out

 

The blade pre-shape forged

 

grinding lines laid out for ladder pattern

 

and ground

 

One thing I need to remember is to switch my brain from blacksmithing to bladesmithing and keep the tang thicker during forging to make it easier to keep things straight while forging and take grinding into account.

 

One question so far:  Yesterday when forging the blade shape, my forge temps climbed up to 2240+ and I read that forging temps recommended for 5160 is 2150 max, so what damage did I do and what, if anything can I do to correct this damage?

 

Thanks for looking, and hopefully it won't be too many days before I can get back to this....

[Alan Longmire]

Question answering is what I do (better than I make knives, anyway ) so here goes:

This is a WIP, a work-in-progress thread.  Pics of just the finished object is a show-and-tell thread.  Oddly enough, they both go in show-and-tell, unless you feel like putting them in Hot Work.  We're not particularly strict about where to put things.

All you did by exceeding 2150 is grow the grain size, probably by quite a bit.  This is easily fixed by nomalizing.  All that means is set your forge at around 1600 degrees and take the blade up to just past critical (1550-ish for 5160), then immediately take it out and let cool to black in still air.  Repeat, and this time stop just at critical (if you're watching for decalescence there will still be a few shadows swirling in the blade), pull it and let cool to black in still air.  Repeat, and this time stop just below critical, right when the shadows are just beginning to show.  There's a lot about this down in the Metallurgy and HT by alloy subforums.  What this does is cause new grain boundaries to form every time you hit critical and drop below Ms start, around 900 degrees for 5160.  You can rock it back and forth across critical as many times as you want to get the grain as fine as you want.  With shallow-hardening steels like 1095 this may reduce hardenability to the point where it is not physically possible to quench fast enough to harden.  With deep-hardening steels like 5160 all it does in increase toughness and edge-holding ability.  Industry measures grain size on a scale from 1 to 10, with 10 being the finest expected.  I know a guy who takes 52100 to grain size 13 (it's not the same as turning the amps up to 11).  It gets so tough I saw him accidentally take a 1" x 1/4" chunk of mild steel off the edge of a welding table with absolutely no damage to his edge.  

Finally, good job getting the 5160 welded up.  The extra chrome makes it hard to stick it to itself, even with flux and a reducing atmosphere.  Did you make sure to have the mating surfaces of the billet be 15N20?  That helps.

Finally finally, welcome aboard!  

[billyO]

Thanks Alan! 

Regarding the billet make up, I know I had 15N20 on both outsides on the original billet, but don't think I paid attention to it after that.  But to be honest, i can't remember because I put these billets together the last time I fired up the forge, almost 6 months ago.

 

Yesterday I flattened the blade and forged in the bevels to come up with this blade shape. 

The edges have been cleaned up on the grinder in preparation for getting this on my surface plate and scribing some center lines so I can take it to the grinder.

[billyO]

Here's a pic of my thoughts.  The red was what I was shooting for (not too bad, seeing as how I lost my pattern during the forging process), the green is what I have and the blue is what I'm going to do. 

Suggestions?

Edited December 4, 2018 by billyO
clarification

[steven smith]

I would make the blade pointier and narrower, try and keep the shape of the red outline but not as wide. And I think the bolster area should be between the blue and green somewhere.

The pic of the laddering grooves cut in the blade really makes me want to forge.

[justin carnecchia]

Welcome to forum! Looking forward to seeing the finished blade!

[billyO]

Hi all, and thanks for the welcomes.  I hope someday to be able to contribute and help.

 

Here's the little progress I've made in the past 3 weeks:  

 

After reading Alan's response (thanks) I think I finally understand grain growth, and I plan on re-normalizing and heat treating before dong any more grinding.  The blanks is still .197" thick so I've got plenty of material left.  

Hopefully I'll be able to get my propane tank re-filled soon so I can make some more progress (boy, this new lifestyle of not driving due to seizures really sucks.  Anyone need an apprentice with a residence in walking distance?  Summer's can't get over the mid 70's however ).

[billyO]

Good day, all.  I was looking for a picture I posted earlier and came across this thread again and realized I really dropped the ball with this WIP, and I apologize.  I could offer a few explanations, but they would be merely poor excuses in an attempt to cover up my inadequacies....

 

Anyway, here's how the the knife turned out (minus final edge, as you can see).  I used spalted maple scales with black felt (soaked in epoxy) liners,  and nickle silver corbys.

 

 

[Kevin Colwell]

 that's pretty neat. I am always happy to see integrals. Never made one. Good work on that one. Thanks for sharing the process with us, too. 

[Chris Christenberry]

Nice, job, billyO.  I like integrals.  Makes for a clean looking knife.

[justin carnecchia]

That one came out nice! 

[Rob Toneguzzo]

Love it Billy. Wood is very nice too 

[Gerhard Gerber]

Cooking with gas (as we say) Billy!  Great knife, looks like a Spyderco Manix with a kick-ass handle 

[billyO]

Thank you all for the kind words.  I may make this one my EDC for a while...

14 hours ago, Kevin Colwell said:

Never made one.

They're a lot more work than I thought it'd be.  I was thinking that most of my knives going forward would be integrals, but after my first two, I'm not so sure anymore....Both of them were full tang, and I still plan on trying one with a hidden tang/WA handle.  I imagine things would go a lot quicker/smoother if one had a milling machine.

13 hours ago, Chris Christenberry said:

Makes for a clean looking knife.

Thanks Chris.  This was my first time trying felt as a liner and I think it helped hide any gaps between the tang and the scales.  If anyone is going to do this in the future, I'll advise making sure the felt is clean, as any dust, hairs, etc. stuck to it will show up after the epoxy dries...(I can probably provide a close-up pic to demonstrate if necessary)

5 hours ago, Rob Toneguzzo said:

Wood is very nice too

Thanks Rob.  I'm so fortunate to have had a property with maples that I harvested for fuel and was able to set aside rounds for handles....I've now got over 700 blocks with spalting, curly figure, burl ready for knives....and at my current pace, this should last a few lifetimes. 

[Paul Carter]

That's really cool looking! Nice job!