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Conner Michaux

Help me finish this. Carving/lil bushcrafter WIP (edited)

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This is a little Bushcrafter/carverI did  a few days ago its just over 6 inches total, the tang is three and a quarter, the edge is three and three quarters, Its 1/8 inch thick, and the edge is about as thick as a Nickle. Its going to be Scandi ground.

Should I file the bevels thinner or heat treat and sand them down?

And does the tang need to be sanded down till its shiny for the Epoxy to stick?

critique wanted.

Both sides of tang IMG_0756.jpegIMG_0755.jpeg

IMG_0752.jpeg

IMG_0753.jpeg

IMG_0754.jpeg

Edited by Conner Michaux

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And I forgot to say Its made from 80crv2.

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That blistered look indicates it's been way overheated and has massive grain, but you can save it at this stage with a few normalizations.  The edge is a little thick, but only because it'll be hard to grind/file thinner once it's hardened.  That cross-section ought to be fine, quenching-wise, at half that thickness or less at the edge.

As for the tang, epoxy actually doesn't stick to smooth surfaces very well.  A long line of experimentation on another forum years ago (google "glue wars" if you're interested) found that the best bond comes from a freshly sandblasted surface.  Close behind that was a rough, say 60-grit finish with a few holes for the epoxy to bond through.  Epoxy needs to have a little thickness to it, that's why a lot of guys hollow-grind their full tangs and notch the heck out of their stick tangs. Just for fun you can prove this to yourself by epoxying a perfectly flat, finely sanded (to 400 grit or so) piece of hard wood like cocobolo or something similar to a polished flat piece of steel, making sure to clamp it tight until the epoxy is fully cured.  Give it a sideways whack on a bench and the wood will pop right off.  

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As Alan said normalize. Normalize several times. If you have an idea of how hot you got it , by color, remember it and don't do that again. IME if you run it through a few normalizing cycles it will be easier to thin out your bevel/edge, then you can harden and temper.

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Hmm I didnt actually forge the knife, It was stock removal and I only got it red. It was also at night so I saw it perfectly. I will normalize just in case. 

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Charcoalcoal forge and you laid it in the forge?

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No it was when I used my propane forge. spring time i think?  That is before the hose started melting...

I had a big piece of steel that I put in because I wanted to hammer of something. but the part I made this knife out of never touched the hammer. 

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Just making sure, Normalizing is heating it up till its yellow and letting it cool right?

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Yellow is too hot, at least in my shop with my eyes.  Bring it up to non magnetic and let it air cool.  That is a dull red to me.

G

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Do you have to temper right after heat treating? Or can I heat treat tonight then temper tomorrow?

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Best to temper straight away to relieve stress in the steel. More important in Damascus but still good to do in monosteel.

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Temper it at least once immediately after quenching it....  There is a real risk of it cracking if you leave it in a full hard state.

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Tempering is part of heat treating.  It's never a good idea to harden a blade and leave it alone without at least a quick temper.  Fully hard blades have been known to snap on the bench overnight.

I see the color for 80CrV2 as almost orange, but really what you need to look for is the shadows in the steel.  They appear between blood red and orange as seen in the dark.  The second they go away (on the way up) pull the blade and let cool to black in the dark in still air.  That's normalizing.  You can quench and repeat, or just repeat.  

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Okay. Thanks I will file a little bit more on the bevels and then heat treat it. Does the steel need to soak at a certain temp? Or just in to the heat till its non magnetic then cool, 3x 

Then for the quench heat it up again to non magnetic and put it in the oil?

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It needs to be about 125 - 150 degrees hotter than non-magnetic.  Throw the magnet away, watch the shadows.  

Oh, and don't soak.

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Do you remember how we did it? 

Do it at night, look for those shadows. Try and remember how you did it on that seax blade. 

 

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Okay I can do that. heres the latest on the knife, I drew the bevels back pretty far and the edge is about as thin as a dime.

 

When I first started to use a file earlier this year I was using a double cut bastard file from Nicholson, But I wanted to experiment so a few days ago I switched to using a Smooth file from Save edge, How old it is I have no idea but it cuts waaaaaaaaaaaay faster so I can nock the bevels out in an hour and a half

I don't really know why because the bastard file is much more course, so you would think it would cut better than a smooth file..right? Anyway I will H-T it tomorrow once it gets dark.

I only have 150 grit sand paper so I can't really get the file scratches out of it.

 

How do you get a sharp line where the bevel stops? I am using a flat piece of wood board to wrap the sand paper on so its somewhat of a hard backing.

IMG_0758.jpegthanks for looking!

IMG_0757.jpeg

Edited by Conner Michaux

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i really want to try a Hamon on it, seems easy enough but the coal will nock all the clay off..

Edited by Conner Michaux

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80CrV2 is not the best choice for a hamon.  You might be able to do it but the chromium in it will fight you.  As far as the coal knocking all the clay off get a pipe large enough for the blade to fit into and stick it into the coal for a muffle tube.  It will also help you see decalesance while heat treating your steel.  I do like to use a magnet to check  the the steel has changed phase while cooling down to black heat.  If you don't let t he steel change  phases back and forth during normalization you will not be refining the grain.

Doug

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What Doug said, plus to keep your lines sharp use a sharp-cornered steel backing and only one thickness of paper.  Wrapped paper and round corners will soften the lines.  I do that deliberately on my hawks.

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the answer the question of the the "lines" where an angle starts and stops those are easier to do with stones then a belt sander.

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4 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Wrapped paper and round corners will soften the lines

Okay will do.

 

8 hours ago, Doug Lester said:

As far as the coal knocking all the clay off get a pipe large enough for the blade to fit into and stick it into the coal for a muffle tube.  It will also help you see decalesance while heat treating your steel.

Great I have a pipe that will work perfectly!

 

 

What happens if you get the edge to thin before H-T?

Edited by Conner Michaux

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4 minutes ago, Conner Michaux said:

What happens if you get the edge to thin before H-T?

You risk both decarburized edges (which means you'll have to grind away a bit of steel to get to the hardened part) and the dreaded potato-chip warp where the edge gets all wavy.  This is really only a problem on really thin blades like kitchen knives.  That looks like it's thick enough to not warp, provided you do your part (straight into the oil, no swishing it around, etc.)  Decarb is your only worry, and 80CrV2 has a reputation for heavy decarb.  You can always dull the edge a bit before you heat treat if you have to.

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Dangit, I think I made some areas on the edge to thin... Ill send pics in a bit to make sure.

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Alan beet me to it! 

You can take the blade out of the pipe periodically to let the edge cool while the spine holds its heat longer. 

If you remember how I heat treated, the blade was never still. 

You can grind/sand the decarb away if you made it too thin. 

The blades I make now I forge to a bit thicker than 1/8" and grind pretty close to finished before the quench since I'll finish grind/sand/sharpen past any decarb, so you're in good shape.

Edited by Zeb Camper
Danged auto correct

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