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hi guys, quick question.

I am making an EDC out of 1084 from Jantz. I forge welded a length of chainsaw chain down both sides and then forged and ground to shape. heat treat was per Allen Longmire in the "heat treat by alloy" section. doing the final grinding I decided to do the "brass rod test" and my edge is soft. any idea where I might have gone wrong? I didn't burn the edge grinding, quench was in warm vegetable oil and I did three hours at 400 deg. for temper. any thoughts as to what went wrong would be greatly appreciated.

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How do you monitor the austenizing temp? 

Edited by Joël Mercier

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2 hours ago, Joël Mercier said:

How do you monitor the austenizing temp? 

by "eye" as per the thread in the heat treat section, but I was having trouble seeing the phase change with my setup. the problem could be here, but I would have thought I was too hot if anything, as I quenched at a very bright orange color.

a couple other things that are bothering me are that it seemed to pass the file test post quench and when straitening a warp in the tang post temper, the end of the tang that didn't get submerged in the quench would take a dent from the hammer, but closer to the blade wouldn't. which I took as another indication that the blade was hard.

Pulling my hair out!

Edited by Kelly Akers

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Guest

How long did you sustain your temp for?

Edited by Guest

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It sounds like your quench went fine.  What type of appliance did you use to temper the blade?  Kitchen/toaster ovens can easily run hotter than what you have them set for.

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5 hours ago, Alex Middleton said:

It sounds like your quench went fine.  What type of appliance did you use to temper the blade?  Kitchen/toaster ovens can easily run hotter than what you have them set for.

it's my kitchen oven, testing it now, thanks!

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So my oven is running 20 degrees hotter than it says, would that be enough to be my problem? or should I be thinking more about decarb or something else?

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Yes, 20° can make a difference.  Another thing that might be causing a problem is that the oven's heating elements might over heat the steel as they cycle.  Try a pan of sand, a deep one to keep the oven clean, to serve as a heat sink to buffer the effect of the elements.

Doug

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8 minutes ago, Doug Lester said:

Yes, 20° can make a difference.  Another thing that might be causing a problem is that the oven's heating elements might over heat the steel as they cycle.  Try a pan of sand, a deep one to keep the oven clean, to serve as a heat sink to buffer the effect of the elements.

Doug

Thanks Doug. 

what is the safest way to redo the heat treat?  I'm worried about grinding away too much of the chainsaw chain.

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I usually test before I temper. I am not sure how fast 1084 need to get over the nose...if you got it too hot maybe thats the problem.

Warm oil?? 120* or so is pretty dang hot imo.

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4 hours ago, Doug Lester said:

Yes, 20° can make a difference.  Another thing that might be causing a problem is that the oven's heating elements might over heat the steel as they cycle.  Try a pan of sand, a deep one to keep the oven clean, to serve as a heat sink to buffer the effect of the elements.

Doug

Thanks Doug. 

what is the safest way to redo the heat treat?  I'm worried about grinding away too much of the chainsaw chain.

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So I did some testing and I'm feeling a little bit better.  I sharpened the knife to the point it would shave arm hair and then sliced up a cotton shop rag and whittled and chopped thru a piece of 1x2 pine. it still shaves hair almost as well as before.

so that leaves me with more questions.

1: How definitive is the brass rod test? The edge clearly bent when pressed into the rod. Too soft?

2:  Would a 420 degree temper be considered too hot for 1084 steel by those that know?

thanks again for any help! 

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16 minutes ago, Kelly Akers said:

So I did some testing and I'm feeling a little bit better.  I sharpened the knife to the point it would shave arm hair and then sliced up a cotton shop rag and whittled and chopped thru a piece of 1x2 pine. it still shaves hair almost as well as before.

so that leaves me with more questions.

1: How definitive is the brass rod test? The edge clearly bent when pressed into the rod. Too soft?

2:  Would a 420 degree temper be considered too hot for 1084 steel by those that know?

thanks again for any help! 

How do you do your test? Here's a short video that shows how it's done 

 

Edited by Joël Mercier
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Did it stay bent?  That's the test.  If it bends and goes back straight, you nailed the HT.  If it bends and stays bent you overtempered, if it chips it's too hard.

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

Did it stay bent?  That's the test.  If it bends and goes back straight, you nailed the HT.  If it bends and stays bent you overtempered, if it chips it's too hard.

No it stayed bent, But I may not of been doing the test correctly, I was forcing it straight down into the rod. When I get home I will try it as per the video that Joel shared. (Thanks Joel)

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

Did it stay bent?  That's the test.  If it bends and goes back straight, you nailed the HT.  If it bends and stays bent you overtempered, if it chips it's too hard.

If it stays bent, could it also mean the steel did not fully austenize prior to the quench?  

Of course in that case, the file would probably bite before the temper.

Edited by Joël Mercier
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Sorry to leave everyone hanging on this thread, got busy.

long story short I ended up finishing this knife, I do think that the 420 degree temper is a little too soft. But I didn’t want to redo the heat treat and risk losing the chainsaw chain,  it performed ok at edge retention, so here it is.

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Nicely done. Clean and simple design.

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Came out well. Is that antler you used for the scales?

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On 1/13/2019 at 3:18 AM, Charles du Preez said:

Came out well. Is that antler you used for the scales?

Yes, elk antler.

and thanks!

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