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belt grinder motors and vfd uk advice required


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I'd go with M8 or M10 bolts, myself.  M6 might work, but are on the small side depending on grade.  10mm angle for the platen should be fine.

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Thanks Alan, ive upped the holes to 7mm for a m8 tap.

Unfortunately my cheapo tap holder decided to strip its threads on me, so ive been using the drill press and just manually turning the chuck with the tap fitted, to thread the holes. Its time consuming, but cheaper than buying another tap wrench. 

ive also shortened the main body of the grinder to 300mm or 12 inches, from 400mm or 18 inches it was just too long, but I never thought to check the belt length against it.

I got the shouldered bolts to fit the wheels today and after measuring roughly where the belt would go, decided that shortening the main body was needed and has made it look much more in proportion.

im also contemplating re-doing the tensioning wheel arm and adjuster for something lighter. Its inch and a half square solid bar, but I think 1/2 inch plate would possibly be more than stiff enough

 

About the tensioning plate for the top tensioner wheel.

Am I correct thinking it shouldn't have any sideways play, other than just clearance 

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/28/2019 at 11:23 PM, timgunn said:

A VFD takes mains power in, rectifies it to DC internally, then synthesizes something that looks to a 3-phase motor sufficiently like a 3-phase sinusoidal waveform for the motor to behave as if it is powered by one. The clever bit is that the VFD can vary the apparent Voltage and Frequency and make the motor run at variable speed.

VFDs are available for single-phase 230V input or for 400V 3-phase input. If you get a 230V single-phase one, it can run on UK domestic mains. The biggest you'll be able to run from a 13A socket will be a 3 HP/2.2 kW. It's not really worth getting any other size IMHO. They can run motors smaller than their maximum rating, but not bigger.

If you use a 230V VFD, the output will be 3-phase 230V. The vast majority of 3-phase motors up to 3 HP/2.2 kW are wound for 400V connected in Star (Wye) or 230V connected in Delta and can run fine on a single-phase-input VFD. You'll need to check when ordering though. Over 3 HP/2.2 kW, motors tend to be wound for about 700V in star and 400V in Delta to enable star-delta starting (an old-school way of reducing motor starting current. It has largely been supplanted by VFDs). These cannot run on 230V 3-phase.

Here in Europe (for the present), we have 50 Hz mains: 50 cycles/sec, 3000 cycles/min. Other parts of the world have 60 Hz mains: 60 cycles/sec, 3600 cycles/min.  It's the reason you'll see the different motor speeds quoted on opposite sides of the pond. 

A 2-pole motor will run at an RPM equal to or just below the frequency of its power supply (3000 or 3600 RPM). A 4-pole motor will run at, or just below, an RPM equal to half the power supply frequency (1500 or 1800 RPM). 6-pole: one third (1000 or 1200 RPM), 8-pole; one quarter (750 or 900 RPM), and so on.

We tend to use either 2-pole or 4-pole motors and in Europe, motors generally conform to IEC standards. Across the pond, they tend to use motors to NEMA standards. NEMA motors are pricy over here and offer no inherent benefit. They tend to be used where expensive machine modifications would be necessary to change to an IEC motor. 

For a serious belt grinder, you'll probably want a 90-frame motor in a long casing (90L). This will most likely be 1.5 kW/2 HP if it's a 4-pole or 2.2 kW/3 HP if it's a 2-pole. The shaft size of 90-frame motors is 24mm.

Because half the world uses 60 Hz mains and the other half uses 50 Hz, meaning that maximum mains speed is 3600 RPM, motors are designed to run to 3600 RPM. It is not cost-effective for motor manufacturers to design a completely different motor for each speed, so the only difference between the 2-pole, 4-pole and 6-pole motors in a particular frame size is the winding. The winding is attached to the inside of the outer casing and is static. This means that all the moving parts are good to 3600 RPM. 

We can run a 4-pole motor to 120 Hz  to get 3600 RPM using a VFD, or we can run a 2-pole to 60 Hz to get the same 3600 RPM. 

At the bottom end of the speed range, most drive/motor combinations are able to run smoothly down to about 10 Hz. Below this, running from the simpler V/Hz drives, things tend to feel "coggy". The V/Hz drives use a fixed (usually linear) relationship between Voltage and Frequency to determine what will be supplied to the motor and this linear relationship tends to break down once it gets that far from the design frequency. There are also drives which have "Sensorless Vector" capability. These measure the time difference between peak current and peak Voltage internally, calculate to determine the phase angle between them, then fine-tune the Voltage in real time to maintain the design angle (the motor Power Factor defines this angle, being its Cosine). These can keep the motor running smoothly well below 10 Hz and usually down to 1 or 2 Hz. 

A 2-pole motor on a V/Hz drive has about a 6:1 speed range (600-3600 RPM, 10-60 Hz). A 4-pole motor on a V/Hz drive has about a 12:1 speed range (300-3600 RPM, 10-120 Hz). Either motor has a much greater speed range when run from a SV drive with smooth running down to 1 Hz achievable if needed. 

VFDs switch large currents very fast and produce some heat, which must be dissipated. Most VFDs have ventilation fans and allow airflow over the power components to cool them. They are intended for use in clean conditions (usually sealed electrical enclosures). If there is airborne steel dust (which is both conductive and magnetic) it will flow across the power electronics, where the magnetic fields caused by the switching will capture it and attract the metallic dust right onto the power components. The short-circuit that results is usually quite spectacular and is invariably expensive, killing the VFD completely. 

If they are going to be in the same room as a grinder, we need to use VFDs that are protected against such dust to IP66 or NEMA4 standards. We can either mount an unsealed drive in a sealed enclosure ourselves, with sealed control switches and speed control knob, or we can buy a drive that is designed to be sealed to IP66 from the factory and which has the sealed control knobs, etc on the front. The latter is by far the better option for the non-electrician. To buy and enclose an unsealed (IP20) drive properly, with sealed controls, to IP66 is about as expensive as  buying an IP66 drive to begin with. 

In the US, the KBAC series of sealed drives from KB Electronics are the go-to. In Europe, the Invertec IP66 drives tend to be the ones people use for grinders. The current ones are SV drives so you get the low speed capability.

I'd recommend a 90L-frame motor and an Invertek ODE-3-220105-1F4Y VFD. The drive is expensive, but it's a cry once thing. 

I'd try for a 2 HP, 4-pole motor for personal preference, but would be pretty happy with a 3HP, 2-pole.

If you are anywhere near Lancashire, I can sort you a foot-mount 90L 2-pole 3 HP from a compressor, gratis.

 

I just created an account to say thank you for this post.

 

im same situation as OP and was wondering about vfd’s motors etc and this really helped. Like REALLY helped! 

 

im getting to the final stages and have my motor on order then I’ll be looking for a vfd. No doubt I might be back trawling the forums for more golden nuggets.

 

ive never attempted any sort of fabrication work before and I’m learning everything on the fly.


Thanks again.

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9 hours ago, Lee McCusker said:

I just created an account to say thank you for this post.

 

im same situation as OP and was wondering about vfd’s motors etc and this really helped. Like REALLY helped! 

 

im getting to the final stages and have my motor on order then I’ll be looking for a vfd. No doubt I might be back trawling the forums for more golden nuggets.

 

ive never attempted any sort of fabrication work before and I’m learning everything on the fly.


Thanks again.

 

I have bought a few VFD's from this company in the UK - they have actual people that answer the phone and sort any technical issues you have, without going all tech on you! I think these are the same drives the esteemed Mr Gunn is speaking of! 

 

https://inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/?filter=Protection|IP54+to+IP66

 

I have done the 'cheap' VFD route a couple of times, and it has resulted in blue sparks and smoke after a few months.

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Hi everyone,

 

Would appreciate some advice about the cables to use. I’ve got my motor - 2.2kw 3hp 3 phase, and my VFD is arriving tomorrow. What size cable do I need? I’m struggling to work this out so any advice on this and how to wire it, add a plug etc would be really appreciated? 
 

thanks in advance

 

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I usually use 2.5 mm 3-core from the 13A plug to the VFD and 1.5 mm 4-core from the VFD to the motor.  I usually use H07RN-F cable if I can (it has a tough rubber sheath and is nice and flexible). I don't know whether it's in accordance with the current wiring regs though.

 

When I build a VFD into an IP66 enclosure, I do like to fit a socket for the 3-phase out, mainly so that I can use the VFD for running different machines, just by plugging in the one I want to run.

 

A few years back, it was relatively cheap and easy to use the blue 230V 3-phase and earth IEC60309 plugs and sockets. They've become hard to find and expensive over the last few years. Unless you have a particularly strong reason for using a plug and socket, it's probably best to just wire direct initially and keep an eye out for affordable plug(s) and a socket.

 

 

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