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AndrewB

Maybe a Hunter? I dunno you guys tell me ~WIP~

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What is this ph stuff? Vinegar isn’t working for me anymore.

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Posted (edited)

Ph minus from a pool supply. It should be sodium bisulfate. Works fantastically well. 

It's meant to lower the ph in pools and such

Edited by Cody Killgore

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I only soaked the blade for about 3 hours last night because I didn't want to fall asleep and forget about it.  How ever in that 3 hour soak it probably removed nearly 95 percent if not more of the scale off of the blade.  Yea I'm definately sticking to this method.  Glad I had PH on hand to do the job Vinegar couldn't do.  Now it's just waiting on my 36 Grit belts which SHOULD hopefully be here today at some point then I can get to some serious grinding.  I will say though in the little time the PH reducer did an absolutely fantastic job of removing the scale.

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I only did about 15 minutes or so of grinding with the 36 grit belts and holy jebus those things chew off metal like a hot knife going through butter.  WoW am I impressed with them.  @Alan Longmire, I did adjust the platen so there is no slack between it and the belt.  Works twenty times better than it was the other day.  Now that I have the platen adjusted the wobble seems to have completely disappeared from the belt.  There no wobble now.  So I think the problem was the belt being too lose on the machine even when it was still tight it wasn't tight enough.  How ever I do like those 36 grit belts.  I'll post a couple more photos once I get some more grinding done on it.

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Yes for heavy duty grinding I think I found my new favorite belt the 36 grit.  I did about another 30 minutes or so of grinding and got a lot in to this blade.  I've still got more grinding to do I want to get out the hammer marks any suggestions?

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Okay did some more grinding this morning I took it up to 120 grit from the 36 grit.  How ever I can't seem to get some of those forging marks off the blade.  Either way I also ground down that banana tip that I did not like and ground it down to more of a sloping angle which I actually really like the look of.  I'm still trying to practice getting my bevels evenly ground which is proving to be some what of a difficult task.    But I think by far this is turning into one of the better blades I'm working on yet.  My next question on this would be would I go ahead and drill out the pin holes now or wait?  I know I don't want to wait until after I harden and temper the steel I know I want to do it while it's still soft.  I am planning on using Ebony scales for the handle.  I'm going to try carving out the space for the tang to sit in since I have the dremel tools to do it now.  What are your thoughts on what I should do for the next steps.

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On a blade with scales I typically put my pin holes in as the very last step before heat treat.  I find that I always seem to make adjustments to the tang as I go along and putting the pin holes in too early means that they don't look right afterwards.  I would finish up rough grinding your bevels and get the steps to your tang filed in place at the very least.  With the spine of your knife falling away a little bit in the ricasso area I think that you're going to end up making some adjustments that may end up effecting how wide your tang is.

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Posted (edited)

But the tang should still be okay and strong right??  This knife wont be used for extreme chopping or anything like that.  The only thing I've ground  on the tang was getting the hammer marks out of it.  I do need to finish working on the bevels.  I'm wondering if I cut a piece of 2x4 at a certain degree would that help me out with the bevels I'd have to figure out some way of securing the blade to the block.  But I dont want to have uneven bevels.  As far as the Ricasso area I'm not too sure what to do about that lol.  I may wind up just going with an as is sort of thing and try to make it look nice.  I'm not sure yet.

Edited by AndrewB

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Posted (edited)

I don't think you'll have any strength issues to worry about.  Getting even bevels is one of the hardest things to do and something I struggle with on every knife I make.  A full flat grind is probably the easiest to make look consistent as you don't have the transition line to worry about.  A sabre grind like what you have going on there will always leave you with some sort of transition.  Grinding jigs help, but in the end it just comes down to practice, practice, practice.

What you do with the ricasso area is completely up to you.  You could drop the spine down to be even, blend it in, or leave it as is.  It's your knife and in the end just do what makes you happy with it.  

Edited by Alex Middleton

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The bevels is what I'm struggling with big time I know they wont be perfect right away.  But I at least want to get them at a decent angle so they're some what straight since I'm basically free handing everything.  I don't even have a tool rest that I could put at an angle for my 2x72 lol.  But at least I have it on a flat and level surface.  So basically what I've been doing is trying to hold the blade spine towards the ground of course to grind my bevels in.  From what I've ground already it's getting plenty sharp even though it's not hardened.  I'm sure it's sharp enough it could cut paper already.  But the problem is as you can see in the photos they just aren't even.  Not sure if there's some step that I'm missing or something I'm doing completely wrong.  As soon as I get back from the docs office I plan on going out to the shed and playing with the grinder some more (so addicting lol).  But I am not sure exactly how I'm going to get the bevels straight.  I mean I'm not making the knife for anybody except myself.  But I do want to have something decent so I can show it if I wanted to.

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You aren't missing any steps really. There are different methods and a bunch of youtube videos that tell you how to build jigs and whatnot, but really what it comes down to is practice. Teaching your hands and arms that muscle memory to hold that blade a steady angle while moving in a horizontal direction and finding that exact same angle over and over again. It's not easy, and takes a lot of concentration and practice.

Of note, it really shouldn't be sharp yet. You should be working towards the blade edge being that "dime" or slightly less ( I've found) before heat treat.

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Posted (edited)

Yep, like others said. Practice. A lot of practice. I don't even use a work rest at all on my 2x72s.

I don't use jigs and don't recommend beginners to use jigs because I feel like it keeps them from really learning their way around a grinder. Then later if you wanted to make a jig for something, by all means. (obviously you can do whatever you want, just my thoughts on it) 

That said, there's one exception I see with the jigs for beginners. The bubble jig. It doesn't hold the blade for you. Instead, it gives you a reference so you can hold a steady angle. Meanwhile, you are actually feeling everything that's happening and training your hands. 

I'd actually be really curious to know a percentage of bladesmiths that use jigs. I feel like they work better for knifemakers who start with straight precision flat bar. Would make it a lot easier to clamp a blade in a jig. Versus a bladesmith who already forged everything in, including tapers. It would probably be more work trying to get the thing set up right in a jig than it's worth. But that's just how I see it. No clue either way. 

Edited by Cody Killgore

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Yea that's kind of what I was thinking on and about earlier.  I've been trying to learn how to do this with minimal tools at the hand of doing this.  So I will probably keep at trying to get my angles in.  That's why I haven't even attempted doing a plunge line yet.  I don't wanna mess it up entirely lol.

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Well after accidentally cutting a 220 grit belt in half with my own knife OPPS (yes while grinding it lol).  I think I got the bevels to just about the best that I could for a beginner and it looks decent.  I actually decided to say the heck with it and take it all the way up to a 600 grit belt.  So yea its shinny.  But I think I'm ready to drill out the holes for the pins.  What do you guys think on this one I know I need at least two but should I do three pins for a go this time?  I have plenty of material.  Heres the 600 grit photo shoot.

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4 hours ago, AndrewB said:

Well after accidentally cutting a 220 grit belt in half with my own knife OPPS (yes while grinding it lol)

That spikes the heart rate, doesn't it.

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Nah not really just a WTF moment lmfao.  At least drilling out the pin holes should hopefully be easy on this round since I haven't already  hardened the blade yet lol.  I'm still considering using my ebony scales for this little project.  Since black is my favorite color and this is my own personal knife that I am making.  So we shall see.  But yea fortunately the entire belt didn't rip and fly off the machine.  I wound up cutting into half of it rip a portion of it off I pulled the blade away as soon as I saw the piece of belt flyin towards me lmfao.  Just glad it wasn't the hole belt and I had plenty of extra belts lol.

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You need to grab some mild steel flat bar and grind in bevels till they're nice and even and start looking like the knives shown around here.
 

12 hours ago, AndrewB said:

I think I got the bevels to just about the best that I could for a beginner and it looks decent.

JMO, both statements are incorrect.

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5 hours ago, Gerhard Gerber said:

You need to grab some mild steel flat bar and grind in bevels till they're nice and even and start looking like the knives shown around here.
 

JMO, both statements are incorrect.

That's actually a good tip.  Then I could use that for my bevel jig to gauge if I have the bevels right.  Great suggestion.  Keep in mind I did forge the bevels mostly on this one.But again I'll state that's the best that I could do for myself being a beginner.  Plain and simple.  Yes it could be better but it's good enough for me for now.  I will get better at it eventually but for now that's decent for me.

Edited by AndrewB

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Okay I went back out to the grinder this morning, did some re work of my bevels.  I think I got them a little bit better at least.  For me anyway.  Note I did not do any plunge lines.  I don't plan on learning to do plunge lines yet for a while.  So it's just a regular edge what ever that would be with no plunge lines.  I angled it a bit more than the way I had it.  I had to throw a 36 grit belt back on in order to do it.  Next I'll be gettin the drill press set up to drill out the holes, I think I'm still going to stick with two.

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I think that one thing that might help you is to use a file jig to do your bevels before hardening. It's easy enough to file plunges and straight, full flat bevels on the jig. Then you harden and temper the blade and head to the grinder. From there, you can just lay the bevel flat on the platen to keep the bevels consistently flat. Just apply pressure closer to the edge than the middle of the blade. Once your skills with the grinder are improving, you can do it all on the grinder. 

What we can see on the photos(don't take this wrong) are the so called noob grinds. Your bevels should at the very least go up to the middle for a thin blade and above middle for thicker blades.

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19 minutes ago, Joël Mercier said:

I think that one thing that might help you is to use a file jig to do your bevels before hardening. It's easy enough to file plunges and straight, full flat bevels on the jig. Then you harden and temper the blade and head to the grinder. From there, you can just lay the bevel flat on the platen to keep the bevels consistently flat. Just apply pressure closer to the edge than the middle of the blade. Once your skills with the grinder are improving, you can do it all on the grinder. 

What we can see on the photos(don't take this wrong) are the so called noob grinds. Your bevels should at the very least go up to the middle for a thin blade and above middle for thicker blades.

No I don't find that offensive lol.  I'm a NOOB and everybody knows it lmao.  But that's okay for now.  I'm not quite ready to take them up that far.  Maybe once I get a decent looking NOOB product then I can advance lol.  Gotta start off somewhere I'm still at what is called the "Barney Level" LMAO.  But I'm okay with the noob grind for the moment lol.  I just wanted to make sure that I could get even looking bevels.  Once I get better at it I know my bevels will start getting and looking a lot better.  But for now I'm okay with the NOOB grind lmfao.  As I said I take no offense in that what so ever lol.  You gotta remember that I am use to the NOOB term I am a gamer after all as well lol.  But I am going to do what I can to get this blade hardened this afternoon.

Edited by AndrewB

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Don't underestimate yourself. Aim high, be patient and work hard. You could be surprised if what you can accomplish :). Consider the file jig, that's how I started and it's almost fool proof. 

P.S I thought the blade was already hardened. How thin is it now at edge? It looks like you went for a scandi grind and left nothing?

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9 minutes ago, Joël Mercier said:

Don't underestimate yourself. Aim high, be patient and work hard. You could be surprised if what you can accomplish :). Consider the file jig, that's how I started and it's almost fool proof. 

P.S I thought the blade was already hardened. How thin is it now at edge? It looks like you went for a scandi grind and left nothing?

Oh I'm not underestimating myself at this point.  I'm also still trying to get use to my 2x72 too.  The edge is quite thin.  Its already sharp enough to cut paper as it is un hardened.  I also brought the rest of the blade to a  600 grit finish yesterday but then as was pointed out my bevels weren't the greatest.  So this morning I went out slapped a 36 grit belt back on and re worked the bevels to the noob grind at least.  The edge looks like it's about shy of a 16th of an inch thin.  I just hope it doesnt warp in the quench lol.  I also don't have a lot of the right tools either.  I don't even have a bevel gauge I don't have a file guide either lol.  I was doing the grinding all free hand as well.

Edited by AndrewB

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I don't have a bevel gauge or file guide either.  Just 12 years experience freehanding it. I was without a belt grinder for the first eight years I was doing this.  I also found it helped to practice on wood first.  Use your bandsaw to cut a 1/4' x 1.5" x 12" piece of wood (pine is fine), then use that to practice grinding bevels with a 60-grit belt.  This will show you what works much faster and cheaper than using steel.

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I'm going to have to give that a try Alan.  I have plenty of wood.  Especially 2x4s lol.  I also have some mild steel to use but it's not 1/4 inch thick.  Well time to go set up the forge and get this blade hopefully hardened.

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