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Stephen Ray

Canister alternative or hacks?

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Is there a means of making a reasonable canister if you don't have access to a welder? For that matter. Has anyone done a canister of strictly powdered mix steel? Ex: 1095 and W1. With different ratios? I am just trying to understand what the range of possibilities are. I don't want to waste time/material trying things that have already proven to be a flop.

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To answer the first question, not that I am aware of.  

To answer the second, I'm sure that has been done, but since 1095 basically IS W1 there would be zero contrast.  A lot of the mosaic damascus guys make little cookie-cutter looking things out of nickel or 15N20 and fill up the holes with powdered 1084.  

With your current skill set you'd be best served by making ordinary billets with 1084/15N20.  That's hard enough for a beginner.  To be honest, you really can't do canister damascus without a hydraulic press.  You really need that initial multi-ton squish to weld powder.  Don't think that limits you overmuch, though.  Look at all the cool Migration-era patterns.  Those are done a few inches at a time entirely by hand.  

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Thank you Alan. I will not deny my interest in forging was piqued because of Forged in Fire. I lurked here for about two years and it has done nothing except increase my determination to learn. The fact that you have been immersed in this site for as long as you have been and still have the patience to answer a inexperienced person like myself is immensely encouraging and inspiring. Your dedication is noted and appreciated.

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On 3/21/2019 at 2:17 PM, Stephen Ray said:

Your dedication is noted and appreciated.

Stephen - Alan's amazing dedication and help is his devious and not so subtle plan to get all of us into his thrall and become his obedient minions to help him achieve his ultimate goal..... see his interests in his member profile :o

 

Alan you rock Praising the Lord emoticon (Hand gesture emoticons)

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Well, his prospective minion is struggling to get proper equipment within a very tight budget...lol I may have my sights on an I-BEAM as an improvised anvil. 

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Just dont buy one of the cheap ASO harbor freight garbage ones.... 

A solid block of steel will work much better, even if its A36....

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yeah, better then anything you could get at harbor freight for sure.

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Thank you! I will contact the seller in the morning. Presumably they still have some left. I will see what other materials they may be offering while I am there.

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that will work but if you have a scrap  yard near you you could probubly get a larger chunk for less there for a base i would build a hollow box tall enough to get to your hammering hight fill it full of concreat and set your anvil object in to that  that will keep it at hight and keep it from walking around on you

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I will look into that too. Still gonna get a couple of those rounds though. I am sure I could do something with them.

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On 3/21/2019 at 3:11 PM, Alan Longmire said:

To answer the first question, not that I am aware of.  

To answer the second, I'm sure that has been done, but since 1095 basically IS W1 there would be zero contrast.  A lot of the mosaic damascus guys make little cookie-cutter looking things out of nickel or 15N20 and fill up the holes with powdered 1084.  

With your current skill set you'd be best served by making ordinary billets with 1084/15N20.  That's hard enough for a beginner.  To be honest, you really can't do canister damascus without a hydraulic press.  You really need that initial multi-ton squish to weld powder.  Don't think that limits you overmuch, though.  Look at all the cool Migration-era patterns.  Those are done a few inches at a time entirely by hand.  

Alan, let me start by saying I am NOT trying to dissent with you.  God and every  one alive knows I am not even worthy of gazing upon your shadow with what you can do.  

   But... there are some videos of guys doing canister welded Damascus without a press.  Are you stating it is much easier and I misread?

   As for the layers, I would definitely agree.  I want to try that, but not until I try a motorcycle chain with some wire wrap to hold it together just to see how it works.  Seen others say it worked quite well, but with my minimal skill set I don't want to waste good steel yet until I know I can do it.

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Don't ever worry about calling BS on me!  :lol:  I was specifically talking about canister welding using powdered steels, and while yeah, you can do it by hand, it is not cost-effective and has a high risk of failure.  The powder guys try for a 50% reduction on the first heat, which is pretty tough to do by hand.

Now, the kind of canned mosaics that Gary Mulkey is producing lately are easier to weld up by hand than powder steel by a long shot.  Still not what I would call easy.  

When you get down to it, I guess I should have said "you will really put more effort and risk into it than it's worth without a press if you're using powdered steels" than the way I phrased it.  Almost everything we do can be done by hand, but there is a point of diminishing returns with several of the processes.

I also have a different perspective on what's best than I did when I started out, because I (a.) have a power hammer and (b.) friends with presses nearby.  I also have some arthritis issues that limit my hammering time compared to when I was younger, so I tend to try for the most efficiency per swing rather than trying to brute-force my way through.

But again, feel free to question me on anything!  I am no expert on any of this stuff, I've just been doing it for 21 years so I know what works best for me.

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Hypothetically I could use my hydraulic Jack and just drop my car on the canister...

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Before you spend money on things that may or may not work, (the steel rounds will work, but not all that well.  They come under the heading of better than nothing.), read through these handy pinned posts.

That should keep you up for a couple of nights.

 

Geoff

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