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Doug Lester

Wrought iron tangs.

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8 hours ago, Emiliano Carrillo said:

show a method for forge welding without wire or tack welds

Can you discuss your methodology for this a little?  Unfortunately I won't be able to attend Ashokan this weekend and I've only done "drop tong", hammer facing, axe bit, and single sided laminate blades (yes, warp city...) forge welding without tacking or wiring first.

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Emiliano nailed it.  B)

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Thanks for chiming in with some practical experience, Emiliano.

Doug

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Thanks Emilliano! I wish I could make it to Ashokan. Maybe someday... 

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15 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Emiliano nailed it.  B)

As usual.

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On 9/18/2019 at 5:15 AM, Emiliano Carrillo said:

I've held and documented several larger seax blades, all of which had the tell tale signs of a forge welded tang and sandwiched contribution.

I've never seen this on any of the seaxes I've studied. Which seaxes were these?

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On 9/18/2019 at 4:28 AM, Doug Lester said:

Going back to the seax welding a wrought iron tang on might have been to conserve hardenable steel (if they could tell the difference).  From what I have read some of the blades were basically iron and some had enough carbon in it to be considered steel.  Depending on the sources.

Before patternwelding became common, seaxes were constructed the same way as knives, which just about any combination to have a steel edge and iron body. However, I've never seen a fully steel seax with an iron tang welded onto it myself. 

Quote

Watch that video where he compares the seax with the bowie knife.  He explained that the broken back seax come from the British Isles and blades with more of a rounded or spear point come from Frankish or Nordic regions.  That seax that he had he ordered without a handle with the intent of applying one himself.

Doug

Rounded spines on seaxes were used simultaneously in Anglo Saxon and Frankish regions. The broken back shape is later, and the reason you mostly see them from the British Isles is because seaxes disappear from the archaeological record in Frankish regions at the time the broken back becomes the common style. 

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9 hours ago, Jeroen Zuiderwijk said:

The broken back shape is later, and the reason you mostly see them from the British Isles is because seaxes disappear from the archaeological record in Frankish regions at the time the broken back becomes the common style. 

Getting into a bit of a tangent here, but any ideas why they went out of style on the continent but not in the Isles?  

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On 9/19/2019 at 6:58 PM, Jerrod Miller said:

Getting into a bit of a tangent here, but any ideas why they went out of style on the continent but not in the Isles?  

I don't know, changes in regulations, battle tactics etc. In the Isles you also had seaxes of short size as well as longsaxes, while on the continent there were only longseaxes, which formed part of warriors weapon kits. I suspect that the shorter ones were carried by civilians as personal defence. Something also to keep in mind is that burrying the dead with their weapons stopped around the same time as seaxes disappear from the archaeological record. So there may have been more around then the archaeological record shows. However, swords continu to be found in later periods, while seaxes disappear. 

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Thanks Jeroen!  

On 9/22/2019 at 6:19 AM, Zeb Camper said:

You should write a book, Jeroen!

I'd read it!  But it better have plenty of pictures!  :D

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Definitely! I was very upset with the lack of pictures in the last book I bought. Very descriptive wording, but still; pictures would be nice... I think he's got plenty of pictures though! He's an international treasure as far as I'm concerned. 

I realize now that I've completely derailed this thread... My bad. 

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On 9/22/2019 at 6:19 AM, Zeb Camper said:

You should write a book, Jeroen!

I suggested that to him already. Sadly, he dismissed the idea.

On 9/22/2019 at 1:34 AM, Jeroen Zuiderwijk said:

changes in regulations, battle tactics etc

My guess is battle tactics and interaction with different cultures with different weaponry. One thing that is common across all warring cultures is the appropriation of weapons and tactics from the adversaries. Which would explain Jerrod's question:

On 9/19/2019 at 9:58 AM, Jerrod Miller said:

any ideas why they went out of style on the continent but not in the Isles?

It took longer for the isles to get conquered by the forces that spread across the mainland. So, the changes took longer to influence those places.

I'm no scholar by any stretch of the imagination, this is pure conjecture.

Edited by Joshua States

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Some things to keep in mind, on the mainland (Frankish Empire), seaxes disappear either during or shortly after the reign of Charlemagne (followed by Louis the Pious). In the Isles, they disappear after the Norman conquest. History isn't really my thing though.

And yeah, I don't fancy spending the precious time I have to write a book. I've uploaded most of the photos and documents I have (still in progress of adding more) to the facebook group. So basically if you go there you can quite easily catch up on what I know on the subject. 

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So, there is a mideaval knife in this book I bought. Might have been 13th or 14thC. Looks just like a seax. I need to go back and look at it this evening before I jump to any conclusions... 

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Eating knives (or side knives) do retain a sort of seax-y profile for a long time, but they are much thinner than the older actual seaxes and would not be considered such.  

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