Being banned & Misunderstandings?

[JohnK]

Seems as I just, 10 minutes ago on another blacksmithing site, recently got banned for a remark I made I'd like to openly discuss rules and site regulations pertaining to this topic. Most specifically the misunderstanding of someone's remark or wording if you will. I'm all for PC culture but I think it's gone a little to far. Anyone game?

[Garry Keown]

I have just read a thread on another knifemaking forum where a remark was misunderstood and even when it was clarified there was a difficulty by some in excepting the INTENT of the remark against their PERCIEVED intent so my take is that if the posters intent was not derogatory but was taken wrong then an opportunity to expand/explain should always be given and excepted if the intent was not antagonistic.

[JohnK]

My remark, if I don't get banned on here to, was referring to a metal I'm using as being "hotdog or Hebrew National". Since I have no idea what it's makeup is and assuming it likely is a hodgepodge of metals my remark translate's as "cancerous garbage or misunderstood perfection". 

[Jeremy Blohm]

Here is a thread you might find interesting.

 

[Doug Lester]

Humm...commenting on the makeup of rebar?  I would say, just off the top of my head, that the comment about hot dogs is  not what got you into trouble but using "Hebrew National" as a derogatory description of the steel that you were using might have been seen as anti-Semitic.  Oversensitive on someone's part, possibly.  Just live and learn.

Doug

[steven smith]

Hebrew national manufactures hot dogs. 

I like Nathan's better though. 

Does this make me anti-Semitic? 

It sure makes me want hotdogs

 

[Will Wilcox]

John, I think it's a solid analogy. Could be misinterpreted, I guess. But it was obviously not nefarious in nature.

I am not a moderator, but I think I can say that this forum is much more understanding than most. To be honest, I dont think your comment would even get a second look by 90% of our population here. 

Edit: as a matter of fact (I think I've seen it before on here) if you say that rebar is a hodge podge on this site, you're likely to get a few different people posting analytical charts of the typical composition of rebar. This site is amazing at self regulating facts, and passing along knowledge. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Will W.
Added content

[Zeb Camper]

Re-reading that old thread... I'll get a little drink in me and it's hard to tell just what I'll type up. 

But, yeah you meant no harm. I wouldn't beat myself up over that one. Just sucks you got banned. That's why I love this forum. Everything is kept respectful because reputations are on the line. The mods here have a great way of dealing with the few petty arguments that may come up in a respectfulway. I've gotten a little out of hand a time or two myself. Like Doug said: "live and learn". Nobody is perfect. 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Zeb Camper
Cant even friggin spell

[JohnK]

Objectively i can understand the moderators decision. Personally can't. I know in this day and age everything is taken out of context from fear of being labeled as something(undesirable). Not torn up about it as much as my snarky, yet clever remark went down the drain without a single giggle. Being Anti-semitic would be pretty difficult for me as I don't know anyone of Jewish descent, let alone I doubt anyone of any racial or religious group has it out for me. Hate is a waste of my precious time. Also the post was originally about my belt grinder in I felt it wasn't removing stock as quickly as I thought it should. Specifically on this ittle knife

Edited September 28, 2019 by JohnK
New info

[JohnK]

Addendum: ban rescinded but all of my comments or posts go through moderator scrutiny. Takes a looong time to reply to my own threads. Also the hodgepodge metal is in the pic. 

[JohnK]

@Jeremy Blohm I see what you mean brother. I think it does give that feeling of "hey a noob ban them". I did forge some about 10+ years ago but I recently got back in because I just love doing it. It's a good coping mechanism. I do construction for a living and maybe like you guys get asked a lot about simple stuff I feel everyone should know but my eyes still sparkle and my smile still wraps around my head when someone asks me how to do it or what something is used for. I love to teach them and explain the best I can. There is so very much I don't know about smithing but I want to learn. Honestly this falls a close tie for 2 on my hobby list. First is woodworking. Then electronics/smithing. This just helps satisfy my woodworking as well. 

[Alan Longmire]

Let me put it this way:  I've been a member of this site since 2003, and an admin since 2010.  During that entire time a grand total of maybe 5 or 6 people have been banned.  The best way to get banned is to make personal attacks, followed closely by spreading false information after being warned repeatedly against it.  

And that mystery metal looks like plain old A36 structural steel.  

And I, too, prefer Nathan's.  

[SteveShimanek]

Just don't say "Ranger panties" over there.....

[Doug Lester]

Make mine Louiseville beef brisket franks.

Doug

[John N]

If its the forum im thinking of, I left a few years ago. There was too many people putting themselves on a pedestal, emperors new clothes, and a very condescending attitude to people with less experience.

FWIW, I would have thought your comment was anti-semitic at a casual glance, as I did not know that 'Hebrew National' was a food brand (had to google it!) - I suspect that in most countries in the world it is not known either.

[Garry Keown]

1 hour ago, John N said:

If its the forum im thinking of, I left a few years ago. There was too many people putting themselves on a pedestal, emperors new clothes, and a very condescending attitude to people with less experience.

FWIW, I would have thought your comment was anti-semitic at a casual glance, as I did not know that 'Hebrew National' was a food brand (had to google it!) - I suspect that in most countries in the world it is not known either.

That was my first impression as well and I have to say it made me bristle a bit - -BUT, having heard the explanation for the word it cleared up its use. While it may not have been offensive to those "in the know" it certainly raises eyebrows for those who do not, and being a international forum (this one) there are many who would be in the same boat.

[JohnK]

I get the point though. I didn't see anything wrong with it but I'm not everyone. I suppose thinking about a post before posting it would be a bit more productive in the long run. My wife seems to prefer bar-'s. Not bad but not amazing. I know someone that makes deer hotdogs, not sausage mind you, hotdogs. Pretty good actually. I'll look up A36 @Alan. It seems to work though. 

[Gerhard Gerber]

Politically correct behavior makes me sick to my stomach.

I have a severe reaction to anybody that tries force their views on race/politics/religion/gender on me.

I can easily live and let live, those that cannot will be be faced with 6'5" 300 pound gorilla screaming insults into your face.

I strive to be a mirror in life, but ugly I give back with interest.

Shaping metal to your will is such an elemental thing to do that PC BS has no place here.

 

Internet forums have provided me with so much knowledge and fellowship in my favourite activities that I'm deeply thankful, but also extremely resentful when unnecessary....stuff.... interferes.

Having to use your real name on Bladesmithsforum was a breath of fresh air, and there's more knowledge here than I can consume in a life time so fortunately I don't have to "shop" around 

[Kerri Duncan]

I can  appreciate your frustrations John! I see it about weekly in another world from other folks perspective. Im sorry cooler heads didn't prevail initially also. 

As a fairly overall new fellow here I can not say much for the actions of A36 or Rebar (or forged hotdogs for that matter)... But folks are quick to light the torches and gather the pitchforks- this has not changed.

But in a different life outside the shop I can tell you the rules of site policing have gotten very restrictive and although it may have come from inside the group- it may as well be external image pressure. WHAT you type is free speech- WHERE you can say/type it is not.  These rules are in server contracts, hosting agreements, FCC mandates, Paid advertisers- you name it- its got a rule to follow.

And not always from the sources you would expect- We have to reply to any "Server Farm" report for abuse based on a language screen and members can be "auto-banned" for certain character strings or word combinations. As well we get "feedback" from our advertisers that can be direct pressure. These are notoriously abject and evolving/dynamic and these lists are generated every 24 hours in our case. This is a royal PAIN when a member even so much as has a birthday that falls on April 20 (due to 420 being used in the weed industry).

It is a nanny state- digitally.

Please know I am NOT defending anyone- but the trigger word list is looooooong and the easiest way to police is to remove the subject, re-examine it and document. Religious tag words are the trigger here. 

The bigger the forum or audience- global views and the digital image folks are trying to portray to gain following or to become a resource play into it as well. As well- the "bigger" the flock... the less "variety" it can tolerate.

Seems like a big nothing in the overall- just some food for thought. (And, as Mr. Longmire professed- I too, prefer Nathans- but Hebrew National is a close second!) Too bad this forum doesnt have the dancing hotdog emoji... It would go SO well here!

Just a different perspective guys- the moderators dont "Hawk" every thread (and dont want too!) so its a damage control issue for them.

Be safe guys and Hope your weeks are filled with changing seasons and great coffee! (Dont ban me all you tea-lovers!)

[JeffM]

I would agree that the remark made could be seen as anti-semitic...maybe just a simple word change.....call it heinz57 steel.....I've never heard of anyone getting pissed off about all the unknown ingredients in steak sauce....Just my two cents worth

[Doug Lester]

Talk about nanny state, how about the hand sign for OK or a bowl hair cut being declared white supremacist signs.  I bet the Amish would be shocked about the latter...oh wait, they don't have the internet or television.  They wouldn't know.

Doug

Edited October 4, 2019 by Doug Lester

[Alan Longmire]

In several countries the OK sign is a fight-starting insult.

Something will offend someone somewhere.  Just keep it civil here.

[JohnK]

I know what you mean @alan. Its now banned in a lot of places for supposedly meaning white power. That in my opinion is crossing the line with pc culture. Really hope thumbs up and down aren't next....going to make pouring a slab much more difficult hahahah. When Daniel Tosh refers to us as  a "kindergarten country" I agree. My wife and most friends call me a professional @$$hh013, while true, doesn't hurt my feelings in the least. I've had some pretty messed up things said to me but never once did it go deeper than my ear drum, ya know maybe their having a bad day. Seems nowadays everyone feels like everyone else is out to personally attack them somehow without realizing how much effort that really takes. Even as a group it almost always boils down to the individual. I'd venture a guess that literally nobody on forums like these have any racial, religious, or sexual bias toward anyone. That's why I love this place. 

[John N]

The old adage about never talking about religion or politics is a good one.

I spout all kinds of things face to face with folks (not necessarily bad things) that I would never put in writing to be viewed, or scrutinised and potentially misconstrued by 6bn people. 

 

[Alan Longmire]

1 minute ago, John N said:

The old adage about never talking about religion or politics is a good one.

I spout all kinds of things face to face with folks (not necessarily bad things) that I would never put in writing to be viewed, or scrutinised and potentially misconstrued by 6bn people. 

 

And that is how we run the forum.    Thanks, John.