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Joshua States

1095 watering weirdness

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So I have been playing around with 1095 and Hamon production on some kitchen knives. Today was a polishing day and something very strange happened. There is this peculiar watering effect above the Hamon line. (only above the line). The FB crowd immediately jumped on the alloy banding wagon, but I don't think so. First of all, it only appears above the Hamon, not in the fully hardened portions. Secondly, I have two other knives from the same bar of 1095, that are through hardened and there is no banding in either of them.

What d you guys think? Anyone ever had this happen before?

 

Watering above Hamon (1) V2.jpg

 

Watering above Hamon (2)V2.jpg

 

Watering above Hamon (3)V2.jpg

 

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I think it is alloy banding.  The last time I saw that identical herringbone look was above the hardened part of a 1095 kitchen knife Stephen Fowler made.  That was from the infamous batch of pre-banded 1095 Admiral was selling in 2010 or so. Did you do any extra thermal cycling on that one?  That will cause the effect.  Well, it's one way to do it...

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I've had this happen on my first kitchen knife forged from a w1 round. It underwent a lot of heats and banding was visible only above the hamon.

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6 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

I think it is alloy banding.  The last time I saw that identical herringbone look was above the hardened part of a 1095 kitchen knife Stephen Fowler made.  That was from the infamous batch of pre-banded 1095 Admiral was selling in 2010 or so. Did you do any extra thermal cycling on that one?  That will cause the effect.  Well, it's one way to do it...

Personally, I don't think there's enough alloying materials in 1095 to create alloy banding. 5160? Yeah, sure is enough alloying (Chromium)in that steel that some of it may not get fully diluted in solution. W1 or W2? Same thing: Vanadium. Enough alloying that you may get banding. But 1095? What's going to create that band? The manganese or the Phosphorus? <_<

 

All 5 knives had the same thermal treatment as any 1095 knife I make and so far 4 of them have this. I have two other blades from the same 1095 bar that do not have the effect. These are through hardened.. This leads me to believe it has something to do with the differential HT caused by the Hamon. I think it's carbide banding. I have seen alloy banding in medium and high chromium steels (or at least it's what I thought was alloy banding) and it's not so geometric or uniform. It's more curvy and haphazard.

Edited by Joshua States

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30 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

I think it's carbide banding.

 

Yes.  That's what I meant, I just thought carbide banding was the same thing as alloy banding.  Semantics, in other words.  

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4 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

Yes.  That's what I meant, I just thought carbide banding was the same thing as alloy banding.  Semantics, in other words.  

Ok. technically carbon is an alloying element. So I guess carbon banding could be considered  alloy banding. 

 

Whatever it is, I’m digging it. And the hardened parts of these blades are laughing at my 600 grit paper.

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Try diamond plates, Joshua.  I'm no expert, but I'd think it would yield to diamonds.  In my wood carving work, I sharpen heat treated tools all the time with diamond plates.

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If you get the actual spec sheets, I think you're going to find a lot more chromium and other stuff than you were expecting. Even straight 10-series steel can be carrying chrome, nickel, etc. Really pure 10-series is almost a thing of the past, I talked to a gunsmith who told me he needed to hot-blue anything made since 1980 twice as long because of the extra crap in it.

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