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Dane Lance

Tuning fork for heat treat???

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I've watched quite a few videos by a Russian fella on youtube (channel name: shurap).  Guy makes some crazy good looking damascus from all sorts of stuff, but in one particular video where he's making "dragon breath" damascus, during the heat treat, he is holding the blade in a long holder that has a tuning fork on the end.  Right before he pulls the blade out of the forge, he strikes the tuning fork.  I assume this is some method of determining the blade's temperature for heat treat?  I've never seen that before.

Here's the video.  You can jump to the heat treat at the 8:00 mark:
 

 

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The tuning fork does the same thing as quenching to the north, nothing. 

 

would the blade even continue to vibrate in the quench?

 

One of the things that helped me most with knife making was NOT doing weird things and instead developing a methodology that works with me and my tools based on what other people do or have done in the past.

 

Knife making is purely factual aside from the artsy stuff and every aspect of knife making has been pretty well figured out, anything new or too out of the ordinary should be met with skepticism without a good demonstration.

 

You certainly don't want to take a blade out of the heat treatment oven and take the time to ring the tuning fork before quenching. 

 

The blade probably wouldn't vibrate evenly anyways, some parts of it might not vibrate at all. Think of the vibrational nodes on a sword, some areas move a lot but hopefully not in your hand or where the "strong" of the blade is. (I could be wrong about that)

 

the problem is that it sounds nice, like aligning your blade with the earths magnetic North Pole, so people will do it and when it doesn't make the blade any worse they will say it works. 

 

I suspect its a joke, that would go well with all his other wacky tools.

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Yep, pure BS. :lol:  Just trying to inject a little mysticism to set himself apart. A bit of charlatanry which only serves to hurt the honest.

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Yeah, because you need to make sure the blade rings to an F sharp before quenching :huh: lol. 

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I pretty much thought this was some hokus pokus, but just never seen it before.  I know about the north south thing and had a bit of a chuckle the first time I heard about that.  Lol, it's entertaining, if nothing else.  

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Before someone points out that agitating the quench is a real thing, let me just say: Yes, there is such a thing as agitating the quench (oil, brine, or water) to help break up the vapor jacket phase of the quench faster, thus resulting in a faster quench. But a tuning fork isn't going to do that.  An agitated quench is done by either a strong vibration source, strong enough to cause visible ripples in the quench medium, or by using a laminar flow pump in in which the quenchant flows from  the bottom of the tank straight up and over the sides, where it is then recirculated.  In other words, putting your tank on a vibratory tumbler, yes.  Touching a tuning fork to it, no.

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Will, are you sure the blade isn't supposed to vibrate in E sharp?:rolleyes:

 

Doug

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I don’t think E-sharp or F-sharp will make much of a difference but B-flat will help prevent warps. :D

Edited by Charles du Preez
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The bladesmiths paradox:  We all want our blades to B-flat, but also to B-sharp.

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On 12/16/2019 at 10:11 AM, Alan Longmire said:

Before someone points out that agitating the quench is a real thing, let me just say: Yes, there is such a thing as agitating the quench (oil, brine, or water) to help break up the vapor jacket phase of the quench faster, thus resulting in a faster quench. But a tuning fork isn't going to do that.  An agitated quench is done by either a strong vibration source, strong enough to cause visible ripples in the quench medium, or by using a laminar flow pump in in which the quenchant flows from  the bottom of the tank straight up and over the sides, where it is then recirculated.  In other words, putting your tank on a vibratory tumbler, yes.  Touching a tuning fork to it, no.

 

He didn't hit the fork during the quench, he did it while he was heating the blade to quench temp.  As if he would get a certain tone when the blade was at the right temp.  

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That's even more ridiculous...

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Nice ones Charles, and Brian!

There is no Bflat though! But A flat is B sharp. That's the tuning you really want! Because A flat B sharp! 

 

Edit: now I'm mixed up. Could be there is no B#. Because I think c# is b flat. If I had a fretboard nearby I'd tell ya.

 

Dont use the fork!

 

Edited by Zeb Camper

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On 12/18/2019 at 9:59 AM, Zeb Camper said:

There is no Bflat though! But A flat is B sharp. That's the tuning you really want! Because A flat B sharp! 

 

Edit: now I'm mixed up. Could be there is no B#. Because I think c# is b flat. If I had a fretboard nearby I'd tell ya.

 

On 12/16/2019 at 5:30 PM, Charles du Preez said:

I don’t think E-sharp or F-sharp will make much of a difference

Let's get this straight right now fellas.

There is no E# or F-flat. There is no B# or C flat.

 

The 12 note tonal scale (in alphabetical order) is graduated in what are called half-steps or semi-tones.

A sharp sign (#) after a letter indicates a half-step above the letter note. A flat sign (b) indicates a half step below the letter note.

There is a half step between B and C, and between E and F.

Therefore, B# is C and E# is F. Conversely, Cb is B and Fb is E.

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On 12/16/2019 at 8:11 AM, Alan Longmire said:

Before someone points out that agitating the quench is a real thing,

How about someone saying that agitating the quench is severely overrated?

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56 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

How about someone saying that agitating the quench is severely overrated?

Go for it!  B)

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6 hours ago, Joshua States said:

 

Let's get this straight right now fellas.

There is no E# or F-flat. There is no B# or C flat.

 

The 12 note tonal scale (in alphabetical order) is graduated in what are called half-steps or semi-tones.

A sharp sign (#) after a letter indicates a half-step above the letter note. A flat sign (b) indicates a half step below the letter note.

There is a half step between B and C, and between E and F.

Therefore, B# is C and E# is F. Conversely, Cb is B and Fb is E.

Thanks I got confoosed. :wacko: I think I got it figured out. I'm still a fret counter. 

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5 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Go for it!  B)

Agitating the quench is severely overrated.

So There.

:D

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Blasphemy! :lol:

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I finally got a chance to watch the video. I've seen that machine he uses for finish hand sanding before. The one that slides the blade back and forth while he holds the sanding stick. 

I think he's just making fun with the tuning fork. Kind of trying to make folks wonder what that does. Nice looking pattern though.

 

He definitely has some self-made tools and equipment. You have to admire someone with that much determination and ingenuity.

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Personally I love to see his patterns.  He and I have e-mailed back and forth a couple of times and he's a pretty neat guy.  I especially like his Dinosaur Skin pattern.

 

I just can't seem to find that kind of cable.  Of course, he's from Ukrain..........they don't have the same things we do.

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44 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

I've seen that machine he uses for finish hand sanding before. The one that slides the blade back and forth while he holds the sanding stick. 

 

I've seen that machine in several videos from several different blade smiths.  Looks as if it would save a bunch  of rubbing.

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2 hours ago, Chris Christenberry said:

The one that slides the blade back and forth while he holds the sanding stick.

 

I built one of those, and personally... It's overrated.  Does it work?  Sure.   Is it really faster that just hand sanding?  Well,  mine is taken apart under my work table. Mine is poorly built over a weekend using scavenged parts from the shop.  If that tells you anything.   I think if you do everything "right",  then hand sanding shouldn't take all that much time anyway, unless you have lot's of nooks and crevasses.     I like to use 400, 600, and 800 grit black oxide sanding belts, and I've had finishes off the belt come out damn near polished (maybe dull belts?),  but I know sometimes when I take the paper to it after the belts It feels like I'm going backwards sometimes.  As in it looked better before I touched it with the paper.   Your mileage may vary.

 

As far as the tuning fork goes,  I'll leave one next to my bottle of redheaded virgin blood and pixie dust, you know for those special projects.  LoL,  gotta say though, one day it'll probably make the guy rich, while I'm eating ramen.

 

I sure like the youtubes video's though.   They are all doing something smarter/better than me.   They got followers.

 

.02 cents.

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Yeah, that's the only video of his I've ever seen him use that tuning fork, maybe there's some humor there that I just didn't get.

I like his stuff, he makes some really nice patterns and manages to make some nice looking stuff from all sorts of random metal pieces.  

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......he added black pepper and dry chilies to a ball bearing canister in a recent video :ph34r:

:lol:  

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On 12/19/2019 at 7:57 PM, Chris Christenberry said:

Personally I love to see his patterns.  He and I have e-mailed back and forth a couple of times and he's a pretty neat guy.  I especially like his Dinosaur Skin pattern.

I just can't seem to find that kind of cable.  Of course, he's from Ukrain..........they don't have the same things we do.

I finally got a chance to watch this video. He says it's plumbing cable and it looks like the cable on a drain snake.

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