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DavidM

Is brut worth the trouble?

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On 12/21/2019 at 4:32 PM, DavidM said:

I will say, it’s a fun journey. Whether or not I ever make another one after I learn this...I did have a good time. :P

This is the real deal.

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From a beginner perspective, much harder to get right, I've either made the previously mentioned "boat ankers"  or there's something I need or try to clean up, then the clean-up gets away from you and suddenly the effect is lost.

My conclusion is it takes a lot more skill than you might think, and apart from being pretty it might not be that practical.

 

What I really don't like is when the effect is added to a non-forged blade.

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5 hours ago, Gerhard Gerber said:

 

What I really don't like is when the effect is added to a non-forged blade


Especially when they tap on a jetted blank  a little bit, then sell it as a forged blade. That may not be an outright lie, but it’s dishonest.

 

 I have a kitchen knife pattern I get jetted. I pinch the bevel a bit in order to get curve. Would never sell them as forged.

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4 hours ago, DavidM said:

Especially when they tap on a jetted blank  a little bit, then sell it as a forged blade.

Oh that "Forged vs. Stock removal" thing.

I thought we settled that debate 3 years ago........:)

https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/34767-forging-vs-stock-removal/

 

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1 hour ago, Joshua States said:

Oh that "Forged vs. Stock removal" thing.

I thought we settled that debate 3 years ago........:)

https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/34767-forging-vs-stock-removal/

 

 

The issue here is not forged vs. stock removal, it's misrepresenting the object. 

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7 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

The issue here is not forged vs. stock removal, it's misrepresenting the object. 

In the most capitalist sense, caveat emptor.

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I totally agree, Alan.  I recently met a bladesmith from Northern Texas.  He had a portfolio of really nice looking knives.  Several pictures of his hardness testing equipment showing 59 R on a knife in the machine and several on the table with notes beside them showing 58-59R labels.  (obviously a guy serious about the quality of his heat treating)  Page after page of really well designed knives.......beautiful, to say the least.  We got to talking and he was telling me he typically completes 4 to 5 knives a week and they sell like hotcakes.  We were at Jantz knife makers supply at the time and the gal at the register corroborated he claims.  Said he was in their business at least 3 times a month for more supplies.  Long story short.....when I told him I was eager to get into knife making and was building a forge, he told me he'd never done that.  All of his knives were made via the removal method.  He said if he had to go through the forging process he'd never be able to meet the demands for his work.  So I've never gotten into the argument of one method vs the other.  I just think there's no difference if you do all the steps properly.  It just boils down to telling your customers how the knife was made...........IMHO!

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Chris, that is exactly what I was getting at. Don't care how you get there, but be honest about it. 

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I totally agree.

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Personally, I agree with the "be honest about it", but there's a side to me that says anyone who buys a "custom" knife and doesn't care how someone made it, isn't going to ask.

If someone does care enough to ask, they should at least be educated enough to know the difference, and ask the right questions.

I don't really give a hoot if another maker passes himself off as this or that, when he isn't. 

I do not think it reflects on me in any way, so I don't care.

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53 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

so I don't care.

Maybe, but let me know how you feel after you've had a few clients tell you that you're a thief and liar* because you tell them you can't do the work for the same price or that you can't do the work at all.  One such time I remember was telling the client I couldn't do the same acanthus leaves because they were cast iron from King Arch. 

 

*And no I'm not exaggerating.  I've been called a thief, liar and that I was bad mouthing their previous "Blacksmith" because I was jealous of his skill. 

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8 hours ago, Gerald Boggs said:

Maybe, but let me know how you feel after you've had a few clients tell you that you're a thief and liar* because you tell them you can't do the work for the same price or that you can't do the work at all.  One such time I remember was telling the client I couldn't do the same acanthus leaves because they were cast iron from King Arch. 

 

*And no I'm not exaggerating.  I've been called a thief, liar and that I was bad mouthing their previous "Blacksmith" because I was jealous of his skill. 

 I've told people who were dissing our work to "go make it yourself and get the f&*$ out of my tent" at an art show.

That's how I feel.

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I'm kind of with Joshua on this. If you're going to buy a nice higher end custom knife, you should educate yourself a bit so you can ask the proper questions, and get exactly what you want. If you are fine with the stamped crap at walmart, then you dont need to educate yourself, but you do need help, because those knives SUCK :lol::P.

 

I dont think I've ever purchased anything above 150 dollars without doing a good amount of research on it. 

 

 

 

 

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While I understand Josh and have said those exact words for that exact reason, I still lean towards Gerald.  In the world of tomahawks there are those of us who forge them and those who buy cast heads and finish them.  I have been asked why I charge so much for a cast head, which is pretty annoying since I don't use cast heads.  There are an astonishing number of people who don't know or care about the difference,  and this is not the Wal-mart price point we're talking about. These are four-figure items.  And yet the guy who buys a cast head and precut inlays can charge the same, and I can't complain because I'm stupid enough to make it the hard way.

Commonly heard: "Cool hawks, where do you buy your heads?" "I make them from flat bar or anchor chain." "No, really, isn't that the one Davis sells?" "No, I forge them myself in a coal fire." "I thought you couldn't forge a casting." "It's not a casting. " "If it's not cast, how come it's shiny?" " I polished it and engraved it." "So that's not cast in?" "Again, it's not a casting." "So why are you asking so much?" "(insert sound of head exploding) You make one and see." "Geeze, ask a simple question. A$$hole."

 

 

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:D:rolleyes:

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But Alan, it only takes a few hours... the TV toold me so. :P

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36 minutes ago, DavidM said:

But Alan, it only takes a few hours... the TV toold me so. :P

 

:lol:  Luckily I haven't had to deal with that one yet.  You guys who have been on FiF have it worse, they've all seen you turn out a king-hell blade in under 30 minutes start-to-finish. ;)  You have no excuse! 

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Will haunt me till the end of my days!

 

 I’ve had to start explaining that I charge the same for a 3 hour piece as for a real knife. Fif tax

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:D:lol::lol::D

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Yeah people ask me where I buy my blades all the time. As soon as they ask that question, I know they aren't going to buy the knife. So the rest of the conversation is skipped.

I will suddenly become very interested in a small piece of invisible lint on the table next to me.

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See, I get baited  too easily. I need to learn how to just let it go and bow out like a big boy. :D

 

i even have a box full of FiF boat anchors to pull out as a visual aid for the beginner conversation. lol 

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