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Bruno

Latest Knife (Pic Heavy)

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Posted (edited)

*Warning! Gratuitous Pics Ahead*

 

Hey Everybody,

 

Here are some pics of my latest work.   Felt like forging, so I grabbed a piece of leaf spring and came up with this:

 

 

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Here it is as Forged.

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Those little nubs weren't so easy to forge with my setup,  then I ended up grinding away a lot.

 

First Clean Up and Profile:

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SATANITE!!! 

 

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I never expect to see this with spring steel.   And this stuff is hard to move, like it has chromium or something  in it.  Cracks easy if it's not hot enough.

But this one survived the quench straight and true.   No way for me to know what steel this is.  Old leaf springs though...

 

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After getting done on the belt grinder...   up to 800 grit here I think.

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Here is the left over spring I use to forge this.  Almost 1/2" thick.  Probably off an old Mobile Home Trailer.

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What's going on here ??

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I had no luck with polishing and etching with vinegar and lemon to try and bring the activity out.   So I went to a ferric dip.

I only have up to 2000 grit paper, so I went to that, then etched.  I never liked mirror finishes anyway,  1 fingerprint and it's over...

The clip has a nice edge, but is too thick to really get sharp.  I didn't want to make it too thin anyway.

 

Gratuitous pics to follow.     

 

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I forged this knife with a wrapped handle in mind, because I don't have tons of time to play with this stuff.  So I used some Elk Hide, and gutted black and grey paracord,

tightly wrapped Katana style.  Then hot waxed.   Feels solid to me.

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I kept the forged pommel rough.

 

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Fun.

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Finally, Sheath made of elk and couch hide and hot waxed.

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Blade is around 7.75" inches tip to bottom of ricasso. 

Overall length is just under 13" inches.

 

Tell me what ya'll think.

 

 

 

Edited by Bruno

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Interesting effect on the steel there and an interesting knife. What are the specs?

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That pattern is pretty wild!  If it were raised at all I'd guess it was from overheating, but since it isn't, I have no idea.  Thick leaf spring like that is usually either 5160 or 6150, neither of which do good hamon.  But you do have something going on there for sure... :huh:

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17 hours ago, Charles dP said:

What are the specs?

 

Thanks Charles,   

 

specs are:

Leaf Spring Steel. Unknown.

Blade is around 7.75" inches tip to bottom of ricasso. 

Overall length is just under 13" inches.

1 3/8" at the widest part of blade, where the clip begins.   1 1/4" at the base.

Thickness is about 1/8".

 

It's a really light blade considering it's size.  I don't have a scale.

 

13 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

That pattern is pretty wild!  If it were raised at all I'd guess it was from overheating,

 

Thanks Alan,

 

I've had this happen before a few times on some other blades,   but this is the first time I got a clean pattern on both sides of the blade.   Overheating ?   I don't know?    When I quench, I usually do it a few minutes after I turn on my forge,  just before full operating temp.   Makes it easier for me to not get the steel too hot and is easier for me to see the color of the steel before the bright forge walls drown out the color.     If I recall correctly, I quenched shortly after non-magnetic.   Tested with a magnet.  Hard to see decalescence with the clay.  Quench in warmed canola.  Triple Temper.

 

Maybe I got one of those rare leaf springs that are a 10xx makeup ?  Or maybe I forged it for so long that I beat all the chromium out of the steel, yet somehow amazingly left the carbon alone?  Tactical Hammer Work.  Lol.    Don't know.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Bruno said:

Maybe I got one of those rare leaf springs that are a 10xx makeup ? 

This is my guess. I was reading through some old Ford spec manuals I found online somewhere. There was a period of time they were making leaf springs out of 1095.

It looks like people fighting and brawling to me in that Hamon, especially on the right side of the blade. I'd say you have achieved a serious Bushcraft blade there.

 

BTW- Was "couch hide" a typo, or did you skin the sofa? :o

Edited by Joshua States

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Joshua States said:

...old Ford spec manuals...

 

Thanks Joshua,

 

The steel being 10xx is probably the most likely explanation for the results I got.  I imagine you know as well as I do how old stuff is out in here in the desert.  I tended to grab every leaf I could when I had easy access to them.

 

1 hour ago, Joshua States said:

It looks like people fighting and brawling to me...

 

Funny you say that.  I had the same vision.  :blink::ph34r:

 

And No,  It wasn't a typo.   My last couch was made of some nice thin whitish leather and a good part of it wasn't animal destroyed,  so I took it outside with a sharp knife.   Thinking about making a file holder/roll out of the big piece.   :)

 

Edit:  Hey,  here's a thought,  If I forged out some of this steel to 1/8" x 1" x whatever, and polished it up to eliminate cracking problems, and I heated and quenched in water or brine.     If it explodes, then it probably a chromium/alloy steel? Right ?   Otherwise if it survives, after several attempts, then chances are it's a simpler steel.   Am I correct in that line of thinking ?   Not a definitive test of course, but might yield a guesstimate... 

Edited by Bruno

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11 hours ago, Bruno said:

EditHey,  here's a thought,

That would work.  Even 1095 might crack, but it won't be as impressive a crack as 5160.

 

And Couch Hide...  I love it! :lol:

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Posted (edited)

I'm quite certain that the pattern is decarb. Pay attention to where the blade was clayed and you'll see what happens. I get the exact same effect on the blade before I do the final grind. So, in other words, you should have ground a bit more post HT.

 

Nice knife though!

Edited by Joël Mercier
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3 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

That would work.  Even 1095 might crack, but it won't be as impressive a crack as 5160.

 

And Couch Hide...  I love it! :lol:

IIRC, you are a fan of Allen Sherman no?

"My chair is upholstered in real Naugahyde When they killed that nauga, I sat down and cried

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I am indeed!  Good recall, sir. B)

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Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2020 at 7:21 AM, Alan Longmire said:

1095 might crack...

 

I'm definitely going to try it next time I can get to the forge.  If it turn's out to be 1095'ish, I might try my hands at another water quench with the steel.  I tried a while ago with a file blade,  got some activity, but also got a crack.    Very  small crack, but still there.   I finished the knife as a little herb chopper.

 

On 1/7/2020 at 8:17 AM, Joël Mercier said:

I'm quite certain that the pattern is decarb...

 

Thanks Joël,

 

Precision decarb ?   Is that what I got ?   So am I grinding too thin before clay and heat treat? So the decarb is occuring during the forge heat before the quench ?

I don't leave it in long,  tend to hold the steel the whole time to prevent overheating.   Not doubting you, just trying to understand what's going on. I'm no metallurgist.   I thought that the whole process of hamon involved shallow hardening steals.   If you grind too far, don't you lose hamon in a traditional (105x, 106x) steel ?

 

So the decarb would have to happen right as I am heating for the quench?  I do normalize several times before HT.     What of the other portion's of the blade closer to the handle,  they were completely covered in clay, yet I still get decarb?

 

Maybe my understanding is wrong or flawed,  but I thought decarb tended to happen due to overheating and contact with atmosphere (air).  Is my understanding correct?   The clay should have prevented air,  but then again, if I polished too high, the clay falls off sometimes, or at least separates I guess.

 

Always trying to get better at this.

 

Who is Allen Sherman ?

Edited by Bruno

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Posted (edited)

LoL,

 

 

ok,  I get it.

 

 

and just cuz...

 

 

Edited by Bruno

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Posted (edited)

Occuring during the quenching heat. The pattern on the steel is just too much exactly where the clay was to be an actual hamon pattern. I get that kind of visual after just rough hand sanding a clayed and HT'ed blade. Almost as if the steel scaled or decarbed more around the profile of the clay. 

 

Sorry for not making this any clearer pal!

 

And btw, try to think of a hamon more a sort of 3D thing instead of just 2D. Don't be scared to grind some steel after HT, it's throughout the cross section. 

Edited by Joël Mercier

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2 minutes ago, Joël Mercier said:

. The pattern on the steel....

 

No problem Colonel,    I am just trying to understand what's going to see if I can reproduce it effectively.     How much do you grind away before you lose the pattern, and on what kind of steel do you see this most with ?

 

It's not hamon.  That seem's clear.   Decarbomon ?

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I edited my post as you wrote yours, sorry!

I have no definite answer as to how much steel can be ground, but I can safely assume at least 1/32" per side without much pattern loss. 

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I definitely got some experimenting to do...

 

I've tried clay'ing my last 3 cleavers, but didn't get any sort of pattern.  The steel was fairly thin though.  Also, was made from a different set of leaf spring.    I think I still have the other 3 leafs from that particular trailer, been saving them.   Gonna try the explosion test. 

 

Am I the only weird Metal Worker that keeps track of where he got his scrap from ? 

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Nope, we all do!

Potentially helpful hint on preventing decarb with hamon clay: add a lot of powdered charcoal to the mix.  There's a reason the Japanese do that. ;)

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Alan, can you define "a lot"?

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In this case, "a lot" depends on your clay.  If you go full traditional with clay, rice straw ash, and charcoal, it's about 33%.  If you use Satanite, it's more like 40%.  If you use Rutlands, I don't know.   For any mix, as much as you can pack in that still allows it to stick to the blade.  It does two things: prevents decarb from the clay sucking up carbon, and leaves tiny holes that help keep the quenchant in vapor phase a little longer.

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Thanks Alan.   Sorry for the hijack Bruno. :D

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On 1/8/2020 at 8:48 PM, Joël Mercier said:

And btw, try to think of a hamon more a sort of 3D thing instead of just 2D.

This is fairly important and easy to toss aside and not pay any attention to.

The nature of shallow hardening steels is such that the total phase transformation only goes so deep. When you apply an insulator to some areas on the surface you are, in a sense, keeping that area from hardening fully. So if you put a dot of insulation (clay) on the surface and quench, that area under that surface will show up as Hamon, or temper line, at the phase transfer area. As you start to grind on that area, it will widen out in 2 dimensions, because the insulation has a conical effect through the steel

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We can also keep in mind that 1/32" at edge usually means much less at hamon height. 

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Good info guys  :)

 

Much to experiment with...

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