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Jesse Hodgeson

Anvil purchase question... please help!!

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That does look pretty solid.  I prefer dog clamps to chains just because then there is no chance of movement.  I could have sworn I had better pics, but look at the feet of the anvil here:

bell 2.jpg

 

There's four of those 1" x 3" x 3/8" bars, each one with a 1/2" hole in the middle, with a 6" lag screw snugged up tight at a 45 degree angle into the stump.  No ring, no movement.  I know you can't do a permanent mount, but this one is bolted to the slab floor and held with Liquid Nails.  Hasn't moved in the twelve years or so I've had it.

For a portable stump,  the more weight you can add the better.  

 

Edit:  Found the pic!

 

20181020_134529.jpg

 

Edited by Alan Longmire
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Awesome set of instructions man!  That answered a lot of questions iv had.  One question i have from it though is why such a big cylinder? 14 inches of movement seems like too much. I was thinking of going with a 5 inch cylinder with 8 inch stroke.  Also what do u think about northern tool for the parts? Have anywhere better in mind? 

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Nice anvil and anvil setup Alan!!! I’m jealous! Lol the chain setup has been working Fairly well but I’ll try the lag bolts if you think it’d be better!! Thank u!!!

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22 minutes ago, Jesse Hodgeson said:

One question i have from it though is why such a big cylinder?

 

When Matt makes damascus, the starting stack of material is often up to eight inches or more thick.  Plus the extra height gives you room for handheld tooling or specialty dies that take a lot of space, like large squaring dies.  I'm not trying to step on Matt's toes, but I've used that press a time or two to make big billets.  ;)

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Alan, just out of curiosity, when's the last time you cleaned your shop? :-)

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You're supposed to clean your shop? :blink: 

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When I get working shit kinda gets crazy and tools end up everywhere. I spend most my time between heats looking for the tool I just had in my hand. When everything is steel in the shop things tend to camouflage themselves.

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No problem Alan! And Yeah, when building the press I didn't know what all I might want to do with it, think pushing drifts if a hole were cut in the bottom die holder. And yes at this point the tank would need to be moved for drifting through. And I will admit a shorter stroke would allow for a more rigid frame, which would be better a lot of the time. But a longer stroke cylinder is negligibly more costly than a short one. And I had that much frame material on hand. If you found things you want to  reference it might be a good idea to copy it, because I'm not sure how much longer the site will be maintained.

 

This anvil (#270 Trenton) is mounted in a fabricated steel box filled with concrete. The anvil was suspended from an engine hoist, about an inch deep until the concrete set. Nuts buried in the box for bolt on shelves all around. I have enjoyed it. And it really killed the ringing. http://matthewdwalker.com/visit_my_studio/270_trenton_anvil_swage_blo.html

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Thanks for the advice Matt!! I Hadn’t thought of building one with that much stroke but I like the idea of having extra space of needed. I’m thinking of building one very similar to yours.  30 tons seems plenty sufficient.  Can you tell me how you calculate the tonnage of a press?? Is there a formula or something? 

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Check out this page for the Hydraulics calculators  https://www.surpluscenter.com/Tech-Help/Tech-Help-Home/

 

I bought everything but the frame and hoses from these guys.  BTW, I used a long throw cylinder, I can get 14" between the dies.  Most of the time I only use 5 or 6 inches of that, but once in a while the extra is nice.

Geoff

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Yeah, the hyd calculators are nice. Here's the math in case you are interested. A 5 inch piston has an area of 19.63 sq inches, a 3000 psi pump puts 3000 pounds on every square inch of the piston. Resulting in 58,890 pounds of pressure, so about 29.5 tons! If the pump pressure is lower the force can be the same with a larger piston. Some Porta-power kits operate at 10,000 psi so the cylinder is small/light enough to be handled by hand and still make tremendous force.

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13 hours ago, Gerald Boggs said:

Alan, just out of curiosity, when's the last time you cleaned your shop? :-)

That side, oh, 2004?  I did the machine tool side a couple of months ago.  The forge side may get the treatment when the scale gets deep enough that I can't see that wrought hook...:lol:

Then it'll just get dirty again. Why bother? ;)

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2 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Then it'll just get dirty again. Why bother?

That's what I said when the misses ask me to wash the dishes. :-)

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If you are thinking that its going to be easy moving around a 240lb anvil with just a dolly, well that's ok, but also remember that it's going to be more live 300lbs after you add in the weight of the stump/stand.  My anvil and stand together weigh in at 300lbs and I was moving mine around with a dolly for a while until this past summer.  I'm either growing old, or got a back injury from work and I began to think to move things around smarter not ways that are going to impact my body. So at the moment, my anvil and stand sit on a wheeled cart, I now wheel it to where I want, and I have chain in the garage rafters.  I pick up the anvil and stand with a hoist and set it on the ground. It may take longer to set up, but there is no impact or stain on my body to move it around now.  I'm doing my best not to let my hobby make my problem any worse.

 

The only difference in doing something this way, is that you do sort of increase the chances of a bigger accident if you don't rig things up right.  Like accidentally split a rafter in half.  However my normal job deals with moving very heavy things all the time, so I think I'm ok. 

 

Gerald said it best that size of anvil is based on what kind of work you expect to do.  Big anvils are meant for big work, I have been able to see some really huge anvils due to the people I've come to know through my club and craft school.  The majority of people do not have a very big anvil.  Those guys are usually producing the nice little gift items, and some big things. However the colossus big ones that I've seen guys own are the big architectural guys and the occasional person that just has to have the biggest anvil.

 

I asked the guy I usually work around where he finds so many of these big anvils and his reply is normally, maintenance shops or machine shops for big industry.  Steel mills and rail road shops. 

 

 

I'd also add, that there are a vast majority of hobbyist and other professionals that work off of vintage anvils in very rough shape, cast iron, mig welded edges, badly saddled, and are perfectly happy with them.  They still do the job, so although an anvil may be repaired countless times, it will still work.  The question comes in to the quality of the repair, and what you want in an anvil.  Personally for me, I want a hardened surface and edge as much as possible. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Daniel W said:

rail road shops

That's where my 600 Fisher comes from.  They were throwing it away as scrap and one of the welders saved it. 

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I see what u mean Daniel. Im currently moving my anvil and power hammer inside and out of my shop whenever I forge.  The anvil is easy to move on a dolly. I assumed a 240 would be harder but doable. The power hammer on the other hand is just about a full body workout lol.  I just really don’t like my good tools sleeping outside.
 

From all the suggestions I’ve gotten on here im thinking that a forging press would be a smarter use of my money. I’m planning to start that build in the next couple months.

 

im jealous of your 600 lb fisher Gerard!!  It set you back a lot? 

 

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23 hours ago, Gerald Boggs said:

That's where my 600 Fisher comes from.  They were throwing it away as scrap and one of the welders saved it. 

 I have heard tales of one of the large scrap yards that supply the melt shops around here, that has a "shed" filled with anvils.  I have since been working to see if I can just see whats there. 

 

 

I'm also looking for a hammer myself, or at least I know what I would want in one.  It's been suggested to me that a press is a better option as you don't need a large footprint for it, nor special flooring, or have to worry about 3 phase power conversion.   I've got more experience with a few different hammers but without a place to put it, nor getting to work like I want its not going to happen anytime soon. 

 

Before I started thinking about jib cranes, I had an idea to use an engine hoist to help move stuff around. Again it just took up too much room.

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On 1/22/2020 at 1:17 PM, Jesse Hodgeson said:

It set you back a lot

$660 in 2004.  I would let it go for the small sum of $4000

Edited by Gerald Boggs
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