Newbie burner question, re: Size & type, X-how too

[TerryWay]

Good day Gentile and those who aren't,

Terrance Way, HVAC Tech from Winder, Georgia

I do have a burner question that I could not find an answer to in the sloe of burner threads that I've read for the past hour and half.

How do you go about determining the proper size and or type of burner,  my forge shell is 19" long/deep and 9.5" across, two refrigerant tanks welded together I plan on insulating with 2" Kaowool topped with 3 coats of Satanite. Finished cavity estimated to be 14" by 5". I presume two burners would be enough, would a twin 2" blown burner setup be to much?

I want to be able to reach welding temps.

 

Thanks for any help, if this question has been asked just point me to the thread, I'll take no offence for saving keystroke and time. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by TerryWay

[Geoff Keyes]

I don't know if you've seen this thread, but if not, you should.

Two things about your build

 

1)  That is a pretty big forge for every day forging.  It will burn a lot more gas than you need for making knives, though it's a pretty good size for heat treating.

 

2) I generally figure a single blown burner will heat around 400 CI, yours is about 300 CI so you should be fine with a single burner.

My welding forge (I have 4, one for welding, one for heat treating, one for "everyday" forging, and a 2 brick forge for small stuff) is about 18 x 6 and I use a blown, two burner, common rail system.  Because I have a press, I can work 18 inches of steel at a time, for forging blades (from kiradashi to 32 inch swords) i use a forge with about a 6 inch long burn zone.  The truth is, I have never had a forge that didn't reach welding temps, it's much harder to get one to burn in the 1200 - 1500 F range.

Geoff

[Wayne Coe]

I too would suggest that you use a single Freon tank length.  You will be able to get a more even heat and burn less fuel.  If you are heating more than about 6" you are using excessive fuel, building more scale thus effecting the grain growth . A blown Ribbon Burner will also use less fuel and give a more even heat.  I use a pyrometer and weld damascus billets with about 1# of pressure and no flux.

 

Check out the Build a Gas Forge and the Ribbon Burner attachments on the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com.

Let me know if I can help you.

 

[TerryWay]

Geoff, Wayne, 

Thanks fellas for responding, hopefully this old dog can learn something new.

I will certainly read the referenced thread and your site Wayne, I'm at the point of no return with this build, most of my supplies have yet to arrive and I have more shells than I can shack a stick at. I may just scrap the refrigerant tank idea and go with a 5 Gal water heater tank i have both on hand. the heater tank is much heaver gage steel and eraser to weld on.

I don't know much about the robin burners but I have a 250 CFM centrifugal blower waiting to be put to use.

 

[Geoff Keyes]

Double post

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Geoff Keyes

[Geoff Keyes]

250 cfm is about 2x what you need.  I use 100cfm and choke it back about 80%.

 

Geoff

 

You could turn the existing case into a vertical forge, which is what I use for my every day forge.  I have forged up a 32 inch sword in this forge.

 

g

[Alan Longmire]

Exactly.  People often forget that for blade work, there's no point to heating more than the four or five inches of steel you can work by hand per heat.  Heating more than that just wastes steel via scale and decarburization.  

Now then, if you're welding up big damascus billets and feeding a press, hammer, and rolling mill, you need a big forge.  A long one is good for heat-treating swords ( you can forge one in a little two-brick forge, btw) and bending architectural railings and scrolls, though.

[Wayne Coe]

Do not try to use a squirrel cage fan for a Ribbon Burner.  You need a blower that will develop pressure.  I suggest:

 Https://www.amazon.com/Sunlar-Electric-Blacksmith-Centrifugal-Barbecues/dp/B071NQDNRK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1UKUQNDVS7OFY&keywords=blacksmith+blower+110v&qid=1563467670&s=gateway&sprefix=blacksmith+b%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-1 

[TerryWay]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:36 PM, TerryWay said:

Good day Gentile and those who aren't,

Terrance Way, HVAC Tech from Winder, Georgia

I do have a burner question that I could not find an answer to in the sloe of burner threads that I've read for the past hour and half.

How do you go about determining the proper size and or type of burner,  my forge shell is 19" long/deep and 9.5" across, two refrigerant tanks welded together I plan on insulating with 2" Kaowool topped with 3 coats of Satanite. Finished cavity estimated to be 14" by 5". I presume two burners would be enough, would a twin 2" blown burner setup be to much?

I want to be able to reach welding temps.

 

Thanks for any help, if this question has been asked just point me to the thread, I'll take no offence for saving keystroke and time. 

 

I've opted for this new 5 gal water heater tank in place of the two tank set-up 20 lb propane tank for size reference.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by TerryWay

[TerryWay]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:43 PM, Wayne Coe said:

Do not try to use a squirrel cage fan for a Ribbon Burner.  You need a blower that will develop pressure.  I suggest:

 Https://www.amazon.com/Sunlar-Electric-Blacksmith-Centrifugal-Barbecues/dp/B071NQDNRK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1UKUQNDVS7OFY&keywords=blacksmith+blower+110v&qid=1563467670&s=gateway&sprefix=blacksmith+b%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-1 

Thanks for the advice on this blower Mr. Coe, it's working great for my set-up, still working on a few tweaks here and there.