Question on SanMai

[Bill Schmalhofer 91]

I am planning a San Mai of two pieces of cable Damascus and an 80CrV2 core. All pieces are going to be ~0.25 inches thick to start with. The question is, after the initial weld up, during the drawing out process, will all the pieces move equally? So, to clarify, if they all start as 0.25 inches, will they all end up at 0.083 inches if I'm shooting for a final billet thickness of 0.25 inches? Or will the outside layers move faster / more than the inner layer (meaning I should start with a thinner inner layer)?

[dragoncutlery 48]

the softer metal under the hammer will move faster so if using wrought iron and 1080 the iron will move faster so you would want to start with thicker iron using cable it might move similar but you might want to start a bit thicker and possibly grind some off if you need to 

[Alan Longmire 2,648]

As a general rule, with steel you want the outer layers to be half or less the thickness of the core.  With iron you want as little iron as possible, it'll smear out over the steel.  

[Bill Schmalhofer 91]

55 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

As a general rule, with steel you want the outer layers to be half or less the thickness of the core.  With iron you want as little iron as possible, it'll smear out over the steel.  

So basically if I start with 0.25 inch thick cable, I would need to start with 0.5 inch 80CrV2.

 

In thinking about this today, it's no different than making damascus...DUH!!

 

The cable is basically 1084 and the 80CrV2 is that with a little extra thrown in so they should move the same - just like when I make damascus. 

 

Words of wisdom come back from a poster a professor I know had on his door: "Think before you knock...Then go away." He's a bit of a curmudgeon.

 

The ratio is not something I knew though, so thanks.

 

[Alan Longmire 2,648]

You can do it with equal thickness to make a big billet, but you really have to pay attention to where things are.  It's easy to get the core off-center with thick sides.

[Bill Schmalhofer 91]

I think I got it. The easiest way to do it is to start with everything close to finished thickness and just weld together with very little to no drawing out. 

[Joshua States 1,671]

It really depends on where you want the line to appear. If you want the line in the middle of the bevel, don't forge the bevels and just grind them in. This is a lot of grinding.

If you want the line low down toward the edge, forge the bevels in.

These are two stainless clad 1095 san-mail blades that I forged the bevel in

 

 

This is a cable/1095 blade that I hollow ground the bevels into.

 

 

[Gerald Boggs 203]

Minor hijack:   Is there any difference between San Mai and laminated blades?

[Brian Dougherty 1,104]

34 minutes ago, Gerald Boggs said:

Minor hijack:   Is there any difference between San Mai and laminated blades?

san mai directly translates as  "Three sheets"  so a laminated blade with 3 layers would be san mai.

[Alan Longmire 2,648]

1 hour ago, Gerald Boggs said:

Minor hijack:   Is there any difference between San Mai and laminated blades?

 

Language.  San Mai is Japanese, the three-layer laminates from Scandinavia are in their own respective languages. 

[Gerald Boggs 203]

1 hour ago, Brian Dougherty said:

san mai directly translates as  "Three sheets"  so a laminated blade with 3 layers would be san mai.

According to google translate: Three pieces

 

1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

Language.  San Mai is Japanese, the three-layer laminates from Scandinavia are in their own respective languages. 

So if I say Japanese laminated blade, I mean San Mai, but if I just say laminated blade, I not being country specific.  What if I forge a laminated Puukko? 

Would it be OK to say I forge "Viking style San Mai axe blades".  Hum... I bet I could get more money if I did :-)

 

[Cody Killgore 43]

I think of laminated as a more broad term. I used to make only laminated blades for a number of years. They could have all probably been considered "san mai" though I also had some layers of nickel in between the core and the outer edges so it's not really 3 layers anymore. I always said laminated because I'm not Japanese and felt like it described my blades more accurately.

 

I'm getting some stainless in next week and am planning to do some CruforgeV core and stainless jacket. Hoping it works out well