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Hydraulic press build questions


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I'm getting ready to start my press build and have some questions. I've been researching for awhile and have the Batson book. Right now I use an Appalachian style hammer and a air over hydraulic (20ton) press so the build may be under built for many. I'm planning on a 220v 3hp motor 3450 rpm with a 4.5 inch cylinder. First question after reading here now I'm thinking of a single stage pump and I found a .20 disp vane pump https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/CRS/0-20-cu-in-CRS-V10-1P1P-1C20-Vane-Pump-9-8532-1.axd another new idea. That should give me 3 gpm and .73 ips would that be fast enough? My thought on the vane pump is that it's more efficient and quieter. I'm getting conflicting pressure from Surplus center and the Batson book 1550psi from Surplus center and much higher from my book. 

Thank you 

Gilbert 

Edited by Gilbert McCann
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Gilbert,I am building one too,I am also using a single stage vane pump.In my research I came to the conclusion that in order to get to the "recommended by most" 1" of travel per second with a single stage pump I needed a 5 HP motor.The Batson books numbers(I believe) come from a 2 stage pump,which is a larger GPM at lower PSI to move cylinder faster and then it switches to like 2.9 gpm once it feels the pressure rise ,which also coincides with having buried your dies into hot steel ,and then it gives you full pressure.I am just sitting here with most of the parts ordered and don't have a working press to tell you one is better than the other(single stage or 2 -stage pump)I did watch enough videos and on  Forged in fire when David Baker says"you have to wait for that presses second stage to kick in"to feel I did not want to have to wait for it.I looks like 1500 psi at 3GPM is what you can get with 3HP motor using surplus center calculator.I guessed that there isn't many comments on these single stage pumps because most smiths have used the 2 stages and like their machines how they are and really can't say what the single will or won't do.

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I used a single stage pump on my build.  When I was building this press I used some ideas I got from Tom Ferry.  He used 2, 5 hp farm duty motors, each driving a pump with an output of about 5 gpm.  I looked at the cost of those parts (2 motors, 2 pumps) and discovered that a phase converter was about the same money.

I have a 30hp phase converter driving a 15hp motor pushing 12gpm.  The ram travel is about 3" a second (as observed).  The only thing that slows it down is cold steel.  I also went with a long throw cylinder, so I've got about 14" of space between the dies.  I almost never use more than half of that, but you never know.

 

The 3ph motor only cost me $80, and having the phase converter meant that I didn't have to convert a couple of other machines to single phase.  If I were going to do this today I think I would look at a VFD rather than a rotary converter.

Once I got the relief valve dialed in it squishes hot steel like anything.  It even squashed my stop blocks, over time.

Does any of that help?

 

Geoff 

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@Mike Jesensky Thank you for the response I like the 1 ips as a guide line. I've been checking out a lot of videos too especially the Coal iron works 12 and 16 ton ,the 16 only has a 2hp motor I have whose been full time for 40 + years and he's happy with it, but has only had a power hammer. 

@Geoff Keyes The spacing and speed are good info. That sounds like a monster. Have you tried forging with no heat :lol: seriously though maybe you could weld at lower temperatures. That speed is scary, but you sure could get some work done fast. Well I have a lot to think about and I'll probably start ordering this week. 

Thank you 

Gilbert 

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I do have to be careful.  You don't need full power for everything.  You can squash the hell out of something without meaning to and ruin what you've done.  I'm still learning how to draw tangs and set ricassos and things like that.

 

Geoff

Edited by Geoff Keyes
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Geoff,

I figured I will try and get a working hydraulic press since I never built any hydraulic . Once I built one I would know more,hopefully what I have will work and my next one can be like yours!The cost of 3 phase motors had me figuring if I should get a way to run one,but a 5 HP single phase came to me for low$. What size is your cylinder bore and rod?

mike

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@Mike Jesensky Thanks for the info I think that one is going to be to slow not meeting that 1 ips you mentioned. I'm leaning towards a 2 stage pump after asking my friend with the Coal iron works press about the lag and the fact that I'm not going high enough in hp to get proper speed out of a single stage pump. 

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