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WIP..... possibly A Hobbit Sword


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Posted (edited)

Thanks guys. Got a bur grinder like that Bjorn. Got a half round file I can sacrifice too.

 

made a blade shaped punch and am forging a guard so will get back to that fuller.

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Edited by Rob Toneguzzo
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Hi guys, Today I decided to forge the pommel.   Back to my scrap heap for inspiration.   I made a slot punch from an old rasp and cut the end off of a dumbbell bar for the pommel.

I had one of those days where I had no real plans but just felt like starting another WIP project and forging something from my scrap bin after a Long overdue clean up of the forge.   Sittin

Thanks for the advice and feedback guys. Profiled the guard and now files and sandpaper to finish it off. Forge a pommel next. 

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Posted (edited)

Well I have got the blade to a bit under 500 grams and have decided at this stage to keep the forged fuller.
 

I experimented on some scrap with the half round file and the bur grinder for cleaning a fuller and that worked great but I quite like the contrast between the clean bevels and the slight forge marks which shows that the fuller was forged.( it also is the straightest and most even fuller I have forged to date and I am quite proud of that). I am also planning on a darkish aged etch for the blade.

 

Anyhow, I have done the forging of the guard with the punched blade slot (A first for me) . The blade shaped punch which I made from a 2” wide farriers rasp worked well but the project was not as easy as I thought it would be.


The blade seats solidly with no rattles though I think I will do a small tack of weld either side of the tang and file it back for a perfect fit at the base.
 

Now to profile and refine the shape of the guard.

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8465F485-8577-4240-B100-8011FF5E5A24.jpeg

 

Edited by Rob Toneguzzo
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Rob, Did you then hot fit the guard to the sword? Typically, that's the process to get a tight fit. The puch gets the rough shape and then you hot fit it to the actual sword for a tight no-nonsense fit.

Looking awesome BTW.

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30 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

Rob, Did you then hot fit the guard to the sword? Typically, that's the process to get a tight fit. The puch gets the rough shape and then you hot fit it to the actual sword for a tight no-nonsense fit.

Looking awesome BTW.

Hi Josh,

 

Thanks man, I was going to hot fir but chickened out as I was a bit worried I might leave it on too long and overheat the area. 

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I wouldn't worry about overheating the tang/blade junction. Some softness in the temper there is a good thing.

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Great work!

 

Another thing commonly seen on historical blades and some modern ones is to either cut a shallow slit or drill a few divots on the backside of the guard close to the tang slot where the grip will hide them. Then at final assembly, use cold punches to widen the slit/divots to lock the guard in place against the tang. It won't hide any gaps, but it works for rattles.

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Thanks for the advice and feedback guys. Profiled the guard and now files and sandpaper to finish it off. Forge a pommel next. 

EAEBFAC1-1ABF-4064-B12E-A3AF717A358E.jpeg

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Hi guys, Today I decided to forge the pommel.
 

Back to my scrap heap for inspiration.

 

I made a slot punch from an old rasp and cut the end off of a dumbbell bar for the pommel.

 

 This was also a bit more work than I thought but I am happy with it as it sits roughed in.

 

Still got to fine tune the Tang fit and then to decide on handle material and shape.
 

 

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Edited by Rob Toneguzzo
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Thanks guys 

 

Hey Alan, do you have a pic of the graver you use on your hawks? Especially the cutting edge geometry.
 

I am not happy with the one I made as it does not flow well and keeps biting in. 


 

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Man, if you were close I'd send you the giant versions like I was taught.   Remind me in 12 hours or so and I'll do what I can. It's just angles.

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1 hour ago, Alan Longmire said:

Man, if you were close I'd send you the giant versions like I was taught.   Remind me in 12 hours or so and I'll do what I can. It's just angles.

Will do and much appreciated 

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On 10/6/2020 at 10:00 AM, AJ Chalifoux said:

Great work!

 

Another thing commonly seen on historical blades and some modern ones is to either cut a shallow slit or drill a few divots on the backside of the guard close to the tang slot where the grip will hide them. Then at final assembly, use cold punches to widen the slit/divots to lock the guard in place against the tang. It won't hide any gaps, but it works for rattles.

 

To add on to this: it's a common way to hold hardware in place called staking. I've used it plenty of times to close up gaps where I filed away too much. If you use a narrow rectangular punch, you can move a little bit of metal from a wider area and minimise the visual effects of the staking.

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13 hours ago, Rob Toneguzzo said:

Will do and much appreciated 

 

So:  I do the vast majority of my engraving with a 90-degree square point graver, sharpened like the picture on page two of this: http://www.igraver.com/pdf/square-sharpening.pdf  I use a much steeper face angle, though.  A 45 degree face is great for brass, but doesn't last on steel or wrought iron.  The heel is the most important part of a square graver.  It controls how straight your line can be and the angle at which you must hold the graver for it to cut properly.  A long heel is good for long straight lines, but it won't turn a curve without chattering and breaking the tip.  A short heel lets you turn tight curves, but is not at all forgiving on straight lines.  If the heel is not perfectly symmetrical your graver will pull to one side.

 

I also like this one: https://www.airgraver.com/graver_point_geometry.htm  but since I'm too cheap to buy the templates I do it freehand.  Magnification and frequent checking is critical.

 

Jim Kelso has a great method of making a round graver here

 

and Tom Sterling has one here: 

 

The key to any of these methods is that the face must be flat and the heel/relief must be symmetrical.  If you don't have a heel at all, your tip will dig in and snap off.  And it doesn't take a lot of heel to do the job.  When I put a new point on a graver, the process is this:

 

1. grind and stone the face perfectly flat.

2. stone the sides flat to get a sharp edge all the way around the point.

3. with the graver lying flat on the stone and the point to the right, lift the end of the graver about 15 degrees (the side of the point will now be the only thing touching the stone) and carefully make three to five strokes without varying the angle or rolling the graver at all. Resting the graver on a pencil is one way to teach yourself the proper angle.  Lay a pencil on the stone and lay the graver over the pencil about an inch back from the tip. Make absolutely certain that the side of the tip is the only thing touching the stone.

4. repeat with the point to the left.  

 

Look at the tip under magnification.  If the tiny facets thus created are not even, gently correct until they are.

 

When the tip breaks, it's usually not visible without magnification.  You know because suddenly it stops cutting clean.  To re-sharpen, you go from the face, not the point.  Basically re-forming the tip and heels every time.  I use either 1/8" music wire or 1/8" square m42 HSS graver blanks.  The square ones are far easier to work with since they stay indexed.  The stone I use is a cheap Norton synthetic india oil stone, 8" double-sides.  I only use the fine side for gravers.  Speaking of, I need to re-flatten it.  Sharpening graver tips will put grooves in your stone. That's why I'd never do it on a water stone, they're too soft.  

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5 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

So:  I do the vast majority of my engraving with a 90-degree square point graver, sharpened like the picture on page two of this: http://www.igraver.com/pdf/square-sharpening.pdf  I use a much steeper face angle, though.  A 45 degree face is great for brass, but doesn't last on steel or wrought iron.  The heel is the most important part of a square graver.  It controls how straight your line can be and the angle at which you must hold the graver for it to cut properly.  A long heel is good for long straight lines, but it won't turn a curve without chattering and breaking the tip.  A short heel lets you turn tight curves, but is not at all forgiving on straight lines.  If the heel is not perfectly symmetrical your graver will pull to one side.

 

I also like this one: https://www.airgraver.com/graver_point_geometry.htm  but since I'm too cheap to buy the templates I do it freehand.  Magnification and frequent checking is critical.

 

Jim Kelso has a great method of making a round graver here

 

and Tom Sterling has one here: 

 

The key to any of these methods is that the face must be flat and the heel/relief must be symmetrical.  If you don't have a heel at all, your tip will dig in and snap off.  And it doesn't take a lot of heel to do the job.  When I put a new point on a graver, the process is this:

 

1. grind and stone the face perfectly flat.

2. stone the sides flat to get a sharp edge all the way around the point.

3. with the graver lying flat on the stone and the point to the right, lift the end of the graver about 15 degrees (the side of the point will now be the only thing touching the stone) and carefully make three to five strokes without varying the angle or rolling the graver at all. Resting the graver on a pencil is one way to teach yourself the proper angle.  Lay a pencil on the stone and lay the graver over the pencil about an inch back from the tip. Make absolutely certain that the side of the tip is the only thing touching the stone.

4. repeat with the point to the left.  

 

Look at the tip under magnification.  If the tiny facets thus created are not even, gently correct until they are.

 

When the tip breaks, it's usually not visible without magnification.  You know because suddenly it stops cutting clean.  To re-sharpen, you go from the face, not the point.  Basically re-forming the tip and heels every time.  I use either 1/8" music wire or 1/8" square m42 HSS graver blanks.  The square ones are far easier to work with since they stay indexed.  The stone I use is a cheap Norton synthetic india oil stone, 8" double-sides.  I only use the fine side for gravers.  Speaking of, I need to re-flatten it.  Sharpening graver tips will put grooves in your stone. That's why I'd never do it on a water stone, they're too soft.  

Thanks a million Alan, I really appreciate the effort and comprehensive reply.That was exactly what I was after. I am going to set to work making a square one first like you have explained. What do you temper them at?
 

7 hours ago, Bob Ouellette said:

 

To add on to this: it's a common way to hold hardware in place called staking. I've used it plenty of times to close up gaps where I filed away too much. If you use a narrow rectangular punch, you can move a little bit of metal from a wider area and minimise the visual effects of the staking.

Hi Bob,Thanks,  I will give this a go as I do want everything to be tight.

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With the m42 hss ones, they come hardened and tempered.  With the music wire, I use a small propane torch and normalize the working end a couple of times after grinding but before stoning. Oil quench just to be safe, then the barest of temper at all.  Maybe 325F?  With the torch I draw the end by heating the middle of the graver until the polished face barely shows any color.  

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12 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

With the m42 hss ones, they come hardened and tempered.  With the music wire, I use a small propane torch and normalize the working end a couple of times after grinding but before stoning. Oil quench just to be safe, then the barest of temper at all.  Maybe 325F?  With the torch I draw the end by heating the middle of the graver until the polished face barely shows any color.  

Got it. Will get to it and thanks again.

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Rob I am with you on this one. I have always liked your work and you have my interest on this one!! popcorn show me.gif

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2 hours ago, C Craft said:

Rob I am with you on this one. I have always liked your work and you have my interest on this one!! popcorn show me.gif

Thanks CC Great to have you along for the ride.

 

16 hours ago, kidterico said:

Rob thats some fine work your showing. kidtericoDSC01086 (Small).JPG

Rob thats some fine work your showing. kidtericoDSC01086 (Small).JPG

 That’s some awesome scrimshaw there KT

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