Avise La Fin

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

This will be my most ambitious project yet. Especially without a power hammer. I will have to build some equipment along the way but I want to challenge myself. And... I need the exercise to loose some weight.

 

My late mother was from Scottish decent and a Kennedy and I have decided to undertake this  project to honour her and the Kennedy line.

 

So I plan to make a Claymore using the pictured example as my reference.

 

so... let the games begin

 

 

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

Now I have fed the animals and myself  Time to catch up and post my progress.

 

I am over 15 hours in this build so far.

 

Day 1

 

Started with a dirty big chunk of spring.

 

I cut some test sections and did some heat treat tests and was happy with the results.

 

Cut a 80 cm x 3cm x 12mm section which in itself was a mission.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

Day 2 

Flattened the steel and weighed.

Day 3

Forged the tip.

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

Day 4 

 

Forged the Tang

Edited December 8, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

Day 5

 

Drawing out blade

Edited December 8, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

Day 6 

So hot and humid. Drink up to 5 litres of water each session and probably sweat out the same amount.

 

finished drawing out and forging profile. 
 

Bevels next.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo

[Brian Dougherty 1,167]

You're moving right along Rob.  This is a great project.  

I'm assuming some of the new equipment will be for heat treating?  I'll be watching, as I am planning my first sword-length project next, and don't have an appropriately sized oven for tempering.

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

10 minutes ago, Brian Dougherty said:

You're moving right along Rob.  This is a great project.  

I'm assuming some of the new equipment will be for heat treating?  I'll be watching, as I am planning my first sword-length project next, and don't have an appropriately sized oven for tempering.

Hi Brian,

I will have to build a big forge for certain along with a quench tank to suit too

[Brian Dougherty 1,167]

How long is your blade?  Looks ~1M?  That a bit longer than what I am looking at dealing with, but I think I can get the quench done with my current equipment.  Tempering is my concern.  FWIW, I'm thinking about wrapping my big gas grill in kaowool to use it as a tempering oven.  How big is your barbie?

 

[Alan Longmire 2,726]

Looking good!

 

You don't need the wool for a tempering oven if you're using gas.  Just a diffuser plate to even the heat.

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

7 hours ago, Brian Dougherty said:

How long is your blade?  Looks ~1M?  That a bit longer than what I am looking at dealing with, but I think I can get the quench done with my current equipment.  Tempering is my concern.  FWIW, I'm thinking about wrapping my big gas grill in kaowool to use it as a tempering oven.  How big is your barbie?

 

The blade is 1m but will prob end up a slight bit longer.Tang is 25 cm but I will draw it out to 30 later on. I am pondering the tempering as well. I have seen people run a propane torch over until they get the right colour. I suppose I could do this several times but I’m also open to suggestions. And I really don’t want to even think about the likely warps and bends haha

6 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Looking good!

 

You don't need the wool for a tempering oven if you're using gas.  Just a diffuser plate to even the heat.

Thanks Alan, I think I am thinking of a big coal forge made out of half of a big House size gas bottle. Kind of like the pit in the ground way you have used but raised up on legs. I plan to place a pipe (open both ends) In the coals so I can easily slide the blade in and out and can hopefully get an even heat The length of the blade. I will do a rough diagram later.

 

Do you know of some historical information on how these swords were originally heat treated? I see a lot of examples of old blades but not really much on the old forge set ups and techniques they used. I would love to see what they used way back then.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo

[Alan Longmire 2,726]

20 minutes ago, Rob Toneguzzo said:

Do you know of some historical information on how these swords were originally heat treated? I see a lot of examples of old blades but not really much on the old forge set ups and techniques they used. I would love to see what they used way back then.

 

Me too.   Most of that information has been lost to history due to secretive guilds, national security, etc.  We do know that molten lead was used quite a bit for both hardening and tempering, but that's not really recommended practice these days.  The modern equivalent is salt bath heat treating.  The few texts we have are rather vague.  Theophilus' Diverse Arts, Biringuccio's pirotechnica, and De Re Metallica are about it (at least as far as commonly available), and the last two are more concerned with mining and smelting than heat treating.

 

I've tempered swords with a torch, and it does tighten the sphincter and cause the testicles to ascend.  Use a diffuser tip and keep it moving!  It's hard to temper in a trench forge, it's just too easy to get too hot.  A gas grill is perfect.  That's what I was talking about with the "no wool required" thing.  Up to you as to which side of the blue-brittle range to aim for, but with a big monster like that I'd go full spring temper, Rc48-50.  That's at around 400 C / 750 F.  With leaf spring steel that usually gives a very tough blade.

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

15 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

Me too.   Most of that information has been lost to history due to secretive guilds, national security, etc.  We do know that molten lead was used quite a bit for both hardening and tempering, but that's not really recommended practice these days.  The modern equivalent is salt bath heat treating.  The few texts we have are rather vague.  Theophilus' Diverse Arts, Biringuccio's pirotechnica, and De Re Metallica are about it (at least as far as commonly available), and the last two are more concerned with mining and smelting than heat treating.

 

I've tempered swords with a torch, and it does tighten the sphincter and cause the testicles to ascend.  Use a diffuser tip and keep it moving!  It's hard to temper in a trench forge, it's just too easy to get too hot.  A gas grill is perfect.  That's what I was talking about with the "no wool required" thing.  Up to you as to which side of the blue-brittle range to aim for, but with a big monster like that I'd go full spring temper, Rc48-50.  That's at around 400 C / 750 F.  With leaf spring steel that usually gives a very tough blade.

That’s a shame, no you tube back then to go by either . I have a big gas grill I can use for tempering and will aim as you suggest for spring temper. 

[Brian Dougherty 1,167]

I apologize for horningin on Rob's fun here, but hopefully my questions will help him too.

 

Would it be an issue to to dip, say, two-thirds of the blade into a salt pot, or in the gas grill to temper, and then turn it around and do the other two-thirds?  It seems like a daft idea, but tempering is more temperature dependant than time dependant, so the overlapped region should be fine, right?

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Brian Dougherty

[Alan Longmire 2,726]

For a simple steel that should be okay.  Not ideal, but certainly better than using a torch!

[Bob Ouellette 65]

That sword is looking good, Rob (and so are dem legs )

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

56 minutes ago, Bob Ouellette said:

That sword is looking good, Rob (and so are dem legs )

Thanks Bob those are my good going out shorts . I often wonder what it would be like forging in a climate that gets cold. Humid and hot is all the rage here.

 

On 12/9/2020 at 6:50 AM, Brian Dougherty said:

I apologize for horningin on Rob's fun here, but hopefully my questions will help him too.

 

Hey Brian horningin away all you like! 

 

 

Here is a dodgy embarrassing sketch of the coal forge I am planning for the heat treat. 
 

please fell free anybody who has any suggestions. As Brian said it may be of help to others thinking of similar projects

 

I figured the pipe running through the coal would give a more even heat and allow for the blade to be easily slid in and out

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo

[Bob Ouellette 65]

I was just thinking about the tempering process. If you have an oven with accurate controls, you can heat up several large blocks (maybe more chunks of that spring) and sandwich your sword between stacks of the hot chunks. It might take forever to get a stack of plates heated to an even temperature, but once they're there, you can heat your blade in a controlled manner. I hope that makes sense.

[Bjorn Gylfason 146]

Looking great so far 

 

I built a vertical furnace for heat treating long blades as I was having trouble getting them to an even heat I'm my two burner forge running them in and out along with how floppy a long piece of steel gets when held horizontally while red hot.

 

I temper them with a torch in an even lit area of the shop to better see the temper colours, correct any warping while warm, sand away the colour and temper again until it feels right. Not scientific by a long shot but it kind of works 

 

 

[Joshua States 1,717]

What a wonderful project Rob. I will be watching in anticipation.

I take it the tank is not tall enough to use as a vertical forge?

[Alan Longmire 2,726]

The dodgy sketch looks fine. 

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

Thanks Bob Now you have got me thinking.

 

and Bjorn Thanks too I will defiantly keep that advice in mind 

 

26 minutes ago, Joshua States said:

What a wonderful project Rob. I will be watching in anticipation.

I take it the tank is not tall enough to use as a vertical forge?

The bottle is pretty big and I would prefer a gas vertical forge. Sourcing the materials here would be my main issue. 

 

3 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

The dodgy sketch looks fine. 

Thanks Alan... I have been pondering.....  As in my sketch I will surround and cover the horizontal pipe with coal to heat the blade for the quench but My pondering has me wondering for tempering If I leave the horizontal pipe as before but only put a thin layer of coals below And keep the pipe suspended above. I could put a temperature probe in and see how hard it would be to maintain a suitable temperature if that makes sense.....it might work

[Alan Longmire 2,726]

That might work!  Be sure to do some practice runs, of course.

[Joshua States 1,717]

12 hours ago, Rob Toneguzzo said:

The bottle is pretty big and I would prefer a gas vertical forge. Sourcing the materials here would be my main issue. 

 

I thought you had a propane burner in your forge (the pig). Did you ditch the pig and move to coal?

[Rob Toneguzzo 792]

9 hours ago, Joshua States said:

I thought you had a propane burner in your forge (the pig). Did you ditch the pig and move to coal?

Hi Josh, I still have the pig with all it’s 1 burner glory been using it to forge this out so far.  I just don’t have any more gas burners or wool. In the dry season fires burn through and there is always heaps of good hardwood charcoal to be found so At this time I am looking at charcoal fuelled forge for the heat treat. I suppose I could winge all day about what I don’t have but in reality I just need to make use of what I do have...I know it can be done. Nothing to it but to do it....that’s what I tell the kids with their chores....it annoys them hahaha

Edited December 11, 2020 by Rob Toneguzzo