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RFQ generally stands for "Request For Quote".  They may be quoting several tests to get really high accuracy across the board.  OES, Leco Carbon/Sulfur, gases, etc.  Getting just OES should certainly be much closer to $100.  Definitely is just over $100 at IMR, as I got that done there pretty recently.  

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On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

On 1/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, Bill Schmalhofer said:

I have been wanting to try a hearth furnace for several months now, but a leak in the master bathroom and the resulting repair work has had me occupied for a long time. Today I finally said I need eda mental health day and to do something fun. So hearth furnace run one. Did the (what seems to be becoming the ) standard 7 brick furnace with the blower from my first coal forge. Charged it with 5 - 200 gram charges of A36 that I had sitting around. Time between charges was about 5-6 minutes. Total recovery was about 800 grams.

4_HF Assmebled_IMG_2166.jpg

 

Furnace before first charge.

7_First Charge_IMG_2173.jpg

 

Had two pieces come out. Here's the main one. Is about 770 grams.

11_Main Bloom_IMG_2192.jpg

 

Spark test of beginning material.

14_Spark test starting material_IMG_2239.jpg

 

Spark test of furnace material. Same belt, same grinder speed, same pressure as the starting material picture. Any thoughts on carbon content? Also, as I was consolidating it after pulling out of the furnace, it seemed super solid. I was not able to move it much with a 4 pound hammer.

15_Spark test hearth steel_IMG_2242.jpg

I may need to try this soon. Forgive my ignorance but what fuel is in the furnace....just hardwood?

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@Kreg Whitehead,I think you need to cut back on the caffeine! :lol::lol:

 

Warning, this stuff can become addictive. Alan wasn't lying about sucking you in. :D

 

It's just hardwood lump charcoal. I've been buying 33 pound bags of Cowboy hardwood charcoal at Costco. If you run furnaces sequentially, you get more bang for the buck as you don't have the waste getting it started and a bed of coals made. It took only a little more than 2/3 a bag of charcoal for my last three runs.

 

I'm debating trying a run using anthracite coal sometime here (or at least mixing some in with a charcoal run). I've been told it is a vastly different beast than using charcoal, but I have 40-50 pounds of nut coal sitting in my garage gathering dust and that is not including the 30 or so pounds of rice coal I have right next to it. Just not a lot of information on the web on how to run a anthracite furnace like there is for charcoal runs.

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2 hours ago, Jerrod Miller said:

RFQ generally stands for "Request For Quote".  They may be quoting several tests to get really high accuracy across the board.  OES, Leco Carbon/Sulfur, gases, etc.  Getting just OES should certainly be much closer to $100.  Definitely is just over $100 at IMR, as I got that done there pretty recently.  

This is what testing method they were quoting me plus some incidentals for lab prep, etc. The incidentals actually ran more than the actual test.

 

8 different runs, one run for each element I had said I was interested in.

 

Chemical analysis for Low Alloy Steels, Stainless Steels, and Aluminum Alloys     ASTM E1097-12/CTP 3005/ DCP

 

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DCP-AES is going to be expensive and accurate.  OES will be cheaper.  

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12 hours ago, Bill Schmalhofer said:

anthracite furnace

 

It took the most experienced smelters in the world over a hundred years to figure out how to use anthracite for smelting.  But it can be done, and I don't know how... :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

It took the most experienced smelters in the world over a hundred years to figure out how to use anthracite for smelting.  But it can be done, and I don't know how... :ph34r:

I have the coal. I have the bottle caps. I have the time. No harm in doing it to see how big a mess I can make...:wacko:

 

Besides the wife keeps asking when I'm going to do something with the two big bags of coal that I've had for 6 years (first bought it for use in my coal forge - didn't work too well there).

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You may need to add calcium in the form of either agricultural lime or crushed oyster shell.  Something has to act as slag, and anthracite fly ash isn't ideal.  Nor is bituminous coke, but it works.  

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36 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

You may need to add calcium in the form of either agricultural lime or crushed oyster shell.  Something has to act as slag, and anthracite fly ash isn't ideal.  Nor is bituminous coke, but it works.  

Do you think sand or charcoal briquet ash work?

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Briquets are mostly coal and glue, but sand could do.  And good call, calcium promotes carbon uptake, and can end as cast iron when you want steel.

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That last post of mine I kept hitting submit reply....it appeared it was never gonna work so I gave up. lol

I really wanna try this. Sounds like you do not put all of the steel in at once.

Do you just lay it on top of the coals...or do you try and stuff it down a bit.

What is it your bricks are setting on.....is it of any importance.

I picked up another propane tank a few months ago.

Do you think that would make a good furnace if I stood it on end?

I have left over wool and refractory cement from my forge build.....would that be beneficial?

Is there a reason I would not want to add a bunch of blade scraps from profiling?

Is there a book I can buy? 

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31 minutes ago, Kreg Whitehead said:

Is there a book I can buy?

 

If only!  This forum is, barring personal instruction by someone who has done it, the best resource I know of.   There is a Facebook group for it too, with many of the same people, but I don't do FB so I don't know what's there.  Look up every thread on hearth melting, Evenstad hearth furnaces, Aristotle furnaces, finery furnaces, etc.  Mark Green, Emiliano Carrillo, Lee Sauder, Jesus Hernandez, these are the names to look for.

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4 hours ago, Kreg Whitehead said:

That last post of mine I kept hitting submit reply....it appeared it was never gonna work so I gave up. lol

I really wanna try this. Sounds like you do not put all of the steel in at once.

Do you just lay it on top of the coals...or do you try and stuff it down a bit.

What is it your bricks are setting on.....is it of any importance.

I picked up another propane tank a few months ago.

Do you think that would make a good furnace if I stood it on end?

I have left over wool and refractory cement from my forge build.....would that be beneficial?

Is there a reason I would not want to add a bunch of blade scraps from profiling?

Is there a book I can buy? 

Watch this video (first pinned topic in this sub-forum). It is what started me down the rabbit hole when I saw "how easy it was".

 

If you have nice compact charges (like wrought iron or 1018 / A36 biscuits) you can lay the material right on top and bury it in charcoal. I've been having "fun" with my charges as I am using all kinds of scrap. The charges are big and lumpy and /or full of air (it is REALLY hard to pack bottle caps together). I've been having to pack them down a little otherwise I can't load the charcoal charge on top.

 

I actually made a clay base from material I harvested from my yard. It has shallow indents the size of the bricks to help hold them together in a ring. Then I place that ring on a bed of broken scrap soft fire bricks to keep from scorching the grass in my yard. In the video you'll see that Emiliano just has them sitting on a hard brick platform. I don't think the base is that important. Just something fire proof. My guess is you could probably dig a shallow 2-3 inch deep hole, pack the soil down a bit and make your ring of bricks in that.

 

It's so easy to over think this process on a basic level. First time I did it I was thinking I was forgetting something but it worked (also what has gotten me hooked - I've had 5 runs and every single one has worked - just jinxed myself :wacko:). I'm not trying to imply that it is so easy anyone can do it. I'm goofing around right now and testing the waters. I'm going to guess the hard part (and where the people Alan mention shine) is getting good enough to make reproducible material and not just a crap shoot of material.

 

I'll say the hardest  part I've found right now is consolidating the pucks down to bar stock. Lots of flux and a freaking screaming hot forge make it less of a task.

 

Now I'm going to venture into the territory of the blind leading the blind (as if this novel hasn't been that already). I am by no means good at this but I will give you my opinion on your idea for a furnace. I don't think the tank lined with wool will be a good furnace. I base this opinion (and it is an opinion) on a two points. 1) The inside of the furnace is full of charcoal not a hot burning gas. The wool is going to get beat to heck really fast. When the wool is gone, your furnace body suddenly becomes part of the melt. 2) most of the time to get the puck out, it is easier if you remove a brick to get into the bottom of the charcoal bed. Can't do that if the walls are solid.

 

To your second to last point, the starting material you want to use is low carbon. My understanding of the main purpose of this process is to add carbon to iron. If you start with a high carbon blade material you stand the very real chance of making cast iron not steel. My first run I used scrap A36. A real crap steel, but it probably started around 0.2-0.3% carbon. The material I ended up with was probably pushing 1.5-2%. I wouldn't venture to guess where you would end up if you started at 0.6-0.9% carbon. My runs with bottle caps have netted me material that is sparking somewhere in the neighborhood around 0.8%.

 

Lastly, take everything I wrote with a (large) grain of salt. As I said, I have done this all of 5 times. I've had luck and no bad runs so far. Not much experience, but what I have I am more than happy to pass on.

 

Sorry for the novel. Talk about needing to lay off the caffeine! :lol:

 

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