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Parks 50 and blade coatings = oil contamination?


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Does anyone know if Satanite, which I typically use as a light wash over blades I'm heat treating and for thicker applications for creating hamon can cause contamination or degrade a commercial quench like Parks 50? It's inevitable some flakes off in the quench. Never worried about it much with canola or peanut oil that you treat as consumables.

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  • 1 month later...

Apologies for missing this thread when I asked essentially the very same question here. Brian doesn't seem too concerned about it, and to his point it seems it would be a real pain to filter the oil regularly. Hoping to get a few more perspectives though.

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I've never heard of it causing problems, but I'm not a quenchant engineer. And yeah, that's a thing!:lol:

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Thanks, I missed that thread (and I forgot I posted this, lol). I had trolled around the other knifemaker forums and essentially while there are some anti-scale products with chemical components that could cause degradation by and large clay coatings collect in chunks on the bottom of the tank and just need to be screened out perhaps yearly. The oil can benefit from filtering from time to time too. The main thing is keeping them sealed from the general atmosphere to limit water exposure from the air and probably most importantly, always fully immerse items when quenching to prevent surface flaming which will kill "engineered" quenchants faster than anything else. So, treat it nice and it will last a long time.

 

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An interesting thing I find about Parks 50, is the manufacturer's published working temp. Most folks will tell you to preheat the oil to around 120-130F before quenching.  However, the manufacturer recommends using the oil between 75-120F. I am finding that if I use it at room temp (typically around 80F in my shop) I get considerably harder steel out of the quench.

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You can do some interesting tricks with heated Parks 50, but yeah, if you're not trying for positive sori or quenching a fully sharpened blade to freak out a demo audience it does work best at the recommended temps.

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45 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

...or quenching a fully sharpened blade to freak out a demo audience...

inquiring minds want to know...

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4 minutes ago, Brian Dougherty said:

inquiring minds want to know...

I´ve seen Jesus Hernandez do that at Owen´s hammerin a few years back. My mind is still blown to this very day:blink:.

I guess if you have that level of skill the heat treating gods are kind to you.

 

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Having a quench medium that works best at room temperature was a huge draw for me to buy some Parks 50. The other reason is I mostly work with simple eutectic steels like 1084. I do however have a fair amount of 5160, that stuff Admiral was selling as L6 years ago and other odds and ends but I'll make do with canola oil for the time being for those. I can always get some AAA later.

 

It's odd, after so many years of not doing much bladesmithing it's almost like starting over as a beginner. Even with the decision to "try" and stick to a small range of similar steels for now while I try and balance work, life and the craft I still want to buy some of the newer on the market steels. 80CRV2 is similar enough to 1084 right? Reminds me I want to take the "guy walking with his girlfriend but looking over his shoulder at another woman" meme and label the girlfriend 1084 and the other woman as 80CRV2, lol (Wait, has that already been done?)

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53 minutes ago, Pieter-Paul Derks said:

I´ve seen Jesus Hernandez do that at Owen´s hammerin a few years back. My mind is still blown to this very day:blink:.

I guess if you have that level of skill the heat treating gods are kind to you.

 

 

That is who I was talking about. :lol:  Jesus is the zen master of quenching.  The trick for this one is that he shows you a blade clayed up for hamon, and while he's heating it in the forge he gets someone else to heat up the oil.  Once the oil hits 130 F and the blade is up to temperature, he asks the assistant to vibrate the quench tank. While the blade is in the tank, someone invariably asks why the vibration?  Jesus then says it sharpens the blade. From there he pulls the blade from the oil, wipes the oil off, and proceeds to cut strips of paper with the freshly hardened blade.  Always causes a few gasps. 

 

It works because hot Parks 50 is a slower quench from the upper end than ambient Parks 50. The fully sharp edge will not crack (although if the forge atmosphere is oxidizing there will be decarb), and the lower end of the quench is closer to water, thus slight positive sori with a shallow-hardening steel.  Deep hardening steels will still go negative. 

 

It makes for neat parlor tricks, but in real life there's no need to heat that particular oil.

 

45 minutes ago, Guy Thomas said:

80CRV2 is similar enough to 1084 right?

 

Nope.  80CrV2 is basically super 5160.  Parks 50 would be on the fast end for it, and might cause cracking.  And if you make that meme, please post it! 

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Yeah, that comparison was more tongue in cheek. That's not the first time I seen it compared to a souped up 5160. I posted the meme over on the Fiery Beards forum. If 1086modified were available I would have used that instead!

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